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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Advice on bottom painting

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Lee T
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/31/2004 : 21:22:36

I have a 1975 Catalina 27 which is due for bottom painting, and was hoping to ask you good folks for some advice, including the following questions:

-- The boat yard says it just pressure-washes then starts painting. They don't need to sand down the old bottom paint at all? One issue is I don't know what type of paint is on there right now (I bought the boat 3 years ago and the paint had just been done). They don't seem to care though...

-- Boat yard says it's common to do 1 coat all-around then a second just around the waterline. Is that sufficient?

-- Quotes range from $565 for 1 coat, to $620 for 1 coat all-around and 2 at the waterline, to $810 for 2 coats, up to $1000 for 2 coats. I'm in southern california. Do these prices seem high??

-- It crossed my mind to pay for the single coat (which includes hauling), and then do a second coat myself and maybe pay for an extra day on the hard. Does this sound like a ridiculous idea? Would I need a respirator and full-body suit just to paint?

Many thanks to you all! Any advice or suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated.

Lee

[1975 C27 in LA]

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 21:35:46

You can pressure wash & just paint - most people do that around here (lower Chesapeake Bay) with ablative paint every year or two. You shouldn't need to sand unless you have paint that is flaking off or have too many coats. You definitely need protection to sand & I would take whatever precautions the paint manufacturer suggests for painting. You could look at the paints available at your local marine store for an idea of the safety issues.

Hope this helps a little.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 23:19:53

Hi Lee... From my decades of experience, I've concluded that most bottom paints stick quite well to each other--although I feel better about putting an ablative paint on top of a hard paint than vice versa. (Why anyone but a hard-core racer would use anything other than an ablative paint escapes me, anyway.) The problem comes when older coats of hard paint start releasing from the bottom, causing craters. Pressure washing helps that along. You can sand the craters to make them reasonably smooth, but essentially when this cratering starts, it's time to strip the bottom. (It's time for mine.) It is also generally recommended that you not sand the gelcoat--that just increases permeability, which promotes blisters. If you have bare gelcoat, it should be primed and then, ideally, barrier coated--the latter being a good job for a pro.

Sanding (other than minor wet-sanding) requires careful protection--this dust is a weapon of mass destruction that gets in through the skin, eyes, mouth, and lungs, and has long-term effects on internal organs and the nervous system. Painting, if you keep the paint off your skin, is pretty safe. However, using a solvent to remove antifouling paint from the skin just helps it permeate the skin. I use a roller on a broom handle, and gloves when using a brush.

With ablative paints, you should generally start with about three coats, the first of which is a contrasting color to the other two. After 2-3 years, when you see some of that first coat showing in some spots, it's time to add a coat or two, depending on how long you want to go before you do it again. The extra coat at the waterline is for the slight increase in wear from wave action, especially on a mooring. In a quiet slip, it's value is dubious. In our slip, I've never noticed extra ablating at the waterline. (That's not the same as the small, discolored strip above the static waterline.)

I can't respond on the prices--I've always done my own. A coat takes me about 3 hours (including cutting in the waterline with a foam brush) and about 3/4 of a gallon for a C-25 fin. (I thin the paint a little to reduce the "orange peel" texture from rolling it on.) I will, however, be looking at the alternatives for stripping my bottom (OK--CUT IT OUT!!), weighing the cost versus the struggle.

Hope some of this helps...

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 08:54:56

Use the money to make a down payment on a trailer and do it yourself.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 09:53:34

A trailer makes it harder, and a C-27 is a little big for most trailers.

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 10:11:19

The statements are comparable to San Francisco Bay area costs and procedures. I've been told
just a pressure wash and paint is OK. One coat about 700, two coats around 1000. If you don't
have a trailer and you haul out and do it yourself, you can save. But, it probably will still
cost around 500 or so by the time you buy paint and pay haulout/laydays.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 10:31:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 A trailer makes it harder, and a C-27 is a little big for most trailers.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Every boat at our club has a trailer. We have several 32's and lots of boats over 27.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 11:08:44

The one-coat job for $565 would probably only be good for about a year. The two-coat $810 job would probably last two years and you might be able to stretch it for another 6 months or year. That sounds like the better deal.

If you would put the second coat on yourself, you'd probably pay somewhere around $100 for a gallon of paint, plus the cost of additional supplies, plus the cost of an extra day on the hard. The difference between the $565 job and the $810 job is $245. For the amount you'd save for your labor (probably less than $145), I'd just let them do it. (If you get a hard rain on the day you plan to paint, or if the boat falls off the stands while you are trying to paint under the pads, or, if you get paint on your car seat when you drive home, you'll wish you had let them do it.

)

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 13:29:48

All this talk about painting your own bottom maks me wonder where this is happening...definitely not New York...boat owners here are considered incompetent to paint their own bottoms...on the occasion that I had the yard paint mine they neglected to stirr the paint...thin in parts and thick'n gloppy in others. That'll save the invironment for sure.
All along I thought the, "Yard must paint the boat" was universal...seems not so.

Val on Calista # 3936
Patchogue, N.Y.

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 16:00:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Every boat at our club has a trailer. We have several 32's and lots of boats over 27.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your club probably also has a place to park the trailers for a reasonable price. Near any marina around here, I imagine it would be prohibitively expensive. Other logistical issues (i.e. more $) would also need to be addressed.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 17:14:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 Every boat at our club has a trailer. We have several 32's and lots of boats over 27.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
OK, it can be done, but it's rare around here. Some friends have a C-30 they store at home on a trailer, but have to get a wide-load hauler to deliver it both ways.

Edited by - on

Lee T
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 18:19:36

Thanks to everyone for the comments and suggestions - please keep them coming.

In terms of a trailer, my boat actually came with a trailer when I bought it on '01, but I sold the trailer. My problem was that the trailer costed $60+/month in storage, plus $100 per day to rent a tow vehicle, plus higher insurance premiums. Since my boat is in the water year round, and I don't trailer to other sailing destinations, I would only use the trailer once every 3 years to paint the bottom. So away it went...

I also forgot to mention that my boat has an epoxy barrier coat. With the feedback from this thread, I am hopeful now that I can have the yard haul & pressure wash, then I will paint. It's only if sanding, blister repair, or paint stripping is required that I will need to reevaluate hiring the yard.

Thanks again,

Lee

Edited by - on

Sea Wolf
1st Mate

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27 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2004 : 04:17:07

I'm looking at a boat that has a bottom in decent condition that would probably be fine to sail with if I wasn't going to leave it in the water--in otherwords keep it on a trailer except for weekend outings and so forth. Or that's what I'm told. Being new to boating, I'm going on advice. I'm told that if I want to moore the boat (which I do), I should paint. The owner is suggesting that I can buy a gallon of paint from West Marine and paint it on the trailer.

I know there are different options with painting like doing multiple coats and painting less frequently, or doing fewer and painting again sooner, etc.

But assuming, a light coat will get me by for awhile, since I'm laying out so much money just purchasing the boat etc, how much paint will I need, what kind of paint would be best? This is actually not a C25, but is a 26' boat, probably about the same surface area on the bottom as a C25.

Looking at West Marine, bottom paint seems to average maybe $50/gal. And coverage is supposedly 350 sq ft. Am I looking at the right thing? This doesn't jive with the figures in this thread of like $500 to have it painted and a savings of only $150 for doing it yourself. Will I need more paint or more expensive paint or what? I don't anticipate needing much else but paint, since sanding will me none or minimal and no other repairs or anything.

Thanks.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2004 : 11:29:12

Your boat may have more surface area... but I think a gallon should get you covered for a season.

Having an appropriate thinner makes the paint go a lot farther. Bottom paint tends to get pretty thick as it's exposed to the air, the last third of the can won't go very far if it's gummy. Before you start, be sure to mix the paint very well as the solids will be settled into a cake down at the bottom. It may take some 'digging' and use of empty can to help the mixing process. This part is a bit of a chore, but necessary.

Get your base coat on, then start applying your second coat in high-wear areas like the leading edge of the keel, bow, rudder, and along the waterline... and then do what you can to second coat the rest. Keep going until all the paint is used up (remmnant bottom paint doesn't keep well in the can).

Don't paint plastic thru-hulls, plastic transducers (& etc) the solvents in most bottom paints eat the plastic and can cause thru-hull failure. Small bottles of water-based 'transducer paint' are available for $7 or so to do those parts.

I suggest (strongly) using an ablative bottom paint so you don't have to deal with paint buildup and extra sanding next year. For an 'inexpensive' ablative, I recommend Interlux Bottomkote ACT.

Note: Make sure you get the ACT version, not the non-ablative stuff. If you use a brush, get a fairly decent one. Bottom paint solvents are hard on brushes and a cheap brush will start coming apart in a hurry and shed bristles all over your work. (don't ask how I know this)

Keep the paint off your skin, get some decent nitrile gloves... bottom paint solvents will eat latex gloves (don't ask how I know this). Make sure you have plenty of ventilation, bottom paint solvent fumes are pretty strong.

All in all, I think you should be able to do the whole job for about $150.
Paint, brush, thinner, masking tape, gloves.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2004 : 12:05:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">at West Marine, bottom paint seems to average maybe $50/gal. And coverage is supposedly 350 sq ft. Am I looking at the right thing? This doesn't jive with the figures in this thread of like $500 to have it painted and a savings of only $150 for doing it yourself. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think the average price of bottom paint at WM may be closer to $100/gal.

Do-it-yourself yards around here charge significant amounts for hauling/launching with a crane (~$100), plus per day the boat is in the yard (~$60/day). Some also charge you if you don't buy paint from them. You can avoid those rates if you own a trailer and your own "yard" to do the work (plus you won't be so rushed to complete the work).

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2004 : 14:47:41

Lee,

After doing a lot of calling, I have decided to do the prep and painting myself, with a little help from my buddies.

SF Boatworks will charge me $250 to haul, launch and powerwash the boat. There is a per-day charge of $18 to have the boat there sitting on stands.

I have to buy the paint from them, but all the other materials for my team I have bought on the internet, saving about 2/3 over store or chandlery prices. For example, 80grit wetndry paper is $1.19 at Ace, $.27 in bulk. The same for coveralls, rollers, tape, respirators, brushes, etc.

Doing the labor myself will save $450. The paint will cost about $300, top of the line slime retardant type.

I'll also install a thru-hull to replace the to-hull.

I haul the boat on Thu at 7:30. Sand as soon as they finish power washing. I expect to get on the first coat on Fri. Move and paint the holes on Sat. They are closed on Sun. Launch on Mon.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2004 : 18:02:28

Quit wasting money on expensive ablative paint. I use $45 a gallon West Marine's cheapest. I put in one container of cyen (spelling) pepper. I dont car what anyone says it works. Over ten years I have tested and I dont get anything that wont come off after a day sail.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2004 : 22:49:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Douglas
 I put in one container of cayenne pepper.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How many ounces of pepper per gallon of paint? What size container of pepper are you referring to?

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