Association Forum - Boom height for a bimini on H25

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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Boom height for a bimini on H25

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Randall
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123 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/06/2004 : 00:32:23

Hi gang,

I know I'm a wretched, turncoat swine for having bought a Hunter 25. But it was in such good shape (and my C25 isn't), and the price was right, and it was in the water, and it was close to home, and it has a trailer, and central a/c, and.... well, it has basically everything except a great owner's website like this. To misquote one of the great philosophers of our time: I can't git no satisfaction when I try, and I try, and I try to get advice on the Hunter owners website. They are an unresponsive lot.

I need a new mainsail, and I want standing headroom under a custom bimini. The following is what I posted on the Hunter owners site:

"We sail in south Texas, so we need SHADE! I want to install a fixed bimini with enough standing headroom for average height folks (5'9"). The previous owner had the boom set low on the mast track-- about 8" too low to clear a custom bimini. However, I can loosen the gooseneck and hoist the main all the way up & gain most, if not all, of the boom clearance I need.

"What is the most efficient boom height? Will maximum hoist raise the center of effort too high and hurt performance, or is it designed to be hauled all the way up? The H25 pictured on this site appears to have the boom at max hoist, & looks to have plenty of clearance for a bimini.

"I'm fixin' to order a new Doyle loose-foot main with two full length upper battens. If I still need more bimini clearance, how much harm would I do to performance by having the main cut 4-6" shorter? Seems to me that a slightly shorter loose-foot would perform as well as a standard height bolt-foot, unless the higher center of effort induces too much heel. What's the solution?"

Thanks everybody. I bet I'll get at least five posts here for every one I get on the Hunter site. My H25 is an '82 standard rig fixed keel w/outboard.

Randall

Randall
"Kite" '79 TR/SK dinette #1459
Central Texas

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2004 : 08:03:00

when I was shopping for my first sailboat, a Catalina 22 a few years ago, the Hunter factory was even less responsive when asking questions about their boats. Turned me off right away. I understand your frustration.

Sorry I can't help you about boom height. Good luck.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2004 : 20:41:40

There may be a simple explanation... Hunter 25 owners might not understand a word you're saying (except "shade")!

You probably learned all of that stuff here, like I did!

BTW, I wouldn't worry about raising the CE, because unless you increase the roach substantially, the higher CE is offset by a reduced "E"--the same E as you had from that upper area of the full-sized main. Also, the full battens will slightly depower the top of the sail.

Also, remember that the higher the bimini, the less it tends to shade the cockpit. However, if it's covering the aft end of the cockpit (which we can't do with the factory sheeting on a C-25), I can see that you'd want standing headroom.

As Oscar would say, makin' boat units in San Diego...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/06/2004 20:44:55

Randall
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Response Posted - 09/06/2004 : 22:10:59

OK, I'll bite, why do full upper battens depower the main slightly? I thought they added power by improving sail shape over a larger area.

I haven't actually experimented with raising the main & boom all the way, versus leaving it where the P.O. had it. It may provide the clearance I need without altering the main. If so,how much effect would moving the stock-size sail 10-12" higher have on CE? And if full uppers depower, would they help offset the difference? What effect would these changes have on "the slot"?

Dave, I hadn't considered the higher bimini/less shade quotient. I was just thinking about reducing strain on my 53 year old back. I've settled with age, down to 5'8"(and a 1/4"!), so by bowing my head slightly, I can move around the H25 cabin in a fully upright fashion. My wife is 5'6", and my 10 yo daughter is 5', so they have headroom to spare. Since my H25 has a traveler & midboom setup, I can carry the bimini aft of the backstay and give us all more shade & better posture to boot. Because of the internal rudder (only thing I dislike about my H25), I sit forward in the cockpit, and passengers ride aft, so the additional shade is welcome. The added headroom should also make it easier to clamber up the dive ladder.

With the enhanced headroom throughout, I expect to go home after a long sailing weekend with NO BACK PAIN. Then I can focus all my whining on the pain in my knees!

Randall

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2004 : 23:57:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Randall
 OK, I'll bite, why do full upper battens depower the main slightly? I thought they added power by improving sail shape over a larger area.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
OK, I might be getting in over my head here, but here's my understanding... "Power" as a sailing term does not necessarily equate to "efficiency", in that a fuller sail has more so-called power, causing more heel but not necessarily more driving force. A flatter sail is "depowered", reducing heel but converting the force of the wind more efficiently into forward drive (in conjunction with the keel, of course). In light air, the more "power" the better (at a slight expense in pointing). In heavier air, less power gives more speed and better pointing with less heel.

Now I've told you more than I know--I'll let Steve, Derek, Don, Arlyn, and the rest set us both straight.

Makin' BUs in San Diego...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/07/2004 00:01:13

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2004 : 09:31:46

Randall, why don't you just raise the mainsail to the mast top and sail with it that way in a variety of light and stronger winds and see if it causes the boat to behave in any way that you don't like? It will probably make the boat more tender, and you will probably have to reef earlier, but, following the current trend in thinking, if it feels good, do it.

Generally, I don't like to see people cutting off their sails. Legally, when you sell the boat you should disclose that fact to the buyer, because it's a fact of which you're aware that could adversely affect its value, and it could result in a legal dispute. If you want to get a little extra boom height, you can have your sailmaker put a flattening reef on the sail, and, when you want to use the bimini, you can take the flattening reef in and shake it out very quickly and easily. That way, your boat and sails are all stock, and you can still use it as you wish.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2004 : 17:15:45

Randall: Rereading your first post regarding the 8" you might be able to raise the boom with the stock sail... When you hoist that sail, are you winching the halyard to really harden it? From what I experience with my "floating" gooseneck and downhaul, really cranking the halyard with a fixed gooseneck could use up most or all of those 8". The advantage to that comes in higher winds when you want to flatten the sail vertically as well as horizontally. But assuming that racing is not your priority (given that you're thinking about cutting down the sail), it probably doesn't matter that much. It's just a possible explanation for the placement of your boom.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
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3321 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2004 : 18:33:26

Dave - that is an excellent explanation! (It also explains why you can't point high in light air!)
Derek

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2004 : 23:21:01

Derek: I probably learned most of it from you.

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