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Catalina 250 Water Ballast

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Al_C
Deckhand

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2 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/06/2004 : 11:33:55

Hi,
I am in the market for a trailerable sailboat and have been doing some research. During this process I have come across the Catalina 250 Water Ballast boat and am very interested in it.
I have a few questions that I hope someone can answer and give some direction on.
My questions are;
1. What is the typical weight of the boat, trailer and gear?

2. I have an '04 Honda Pilot V6 AWD that is capable of towing approx. 4500# (according to Mfg's specs), does anyone have any experience of towing this boat with that specific vehicle? And based upon the listed tow capacity do you think the Pilot can handle pulling the water filled boat out of the water and up the ramp?

3. I plan to sail in coastal NJ specifically in the bays and estuaries off of the Atlantic, is this sailboat condusive for sailing in those waters and does anyone have experience in sailing in that area?

I know that's asking for a lot of information, but any help and/or direction would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Al

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2004 : 12:22:25

1. Refer to this discussion from a few month ago. http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6750

2. IMHO I think the Pilot (given the info you provided) would be stressed to tow the C250WB even without the water.

3. The C250 is built to have a Inshore Class C rating by "International Marine Certification Institute Recreational Craft" http://www.catalinayachts.com/certif.cfm
so it sounds like it would work fine for you in that area. I think many sailors on this forum sail their C250's in costal situations.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2004 : 13:27:15

I'm a Honda guy...with four Accords in our immediate family, but no way can a Pilot safely pull a C250. Your best bet would be a full size pickup/suv with a V8.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2004 : 15:13:17

I think there is a difference between moving a boat and trailering a boat. I "move" a C-25 with a Mountaineer. It is in no way safe to "trailer" around a boat to places that you are unfamiliar with when you have a marginal vehicle, but to move between known locations that you know your vehicle can handle is acceptable.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 10/06/2004 15:17:16

Al_C
Deckhand

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2 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2004 : 16:30:06

Thank you to all who responded. I appreciate your honesty!
The search continues.
Any suggestions as to what boats I should be looking at?
Thanks,
Al

Edited by - on

HGraham
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2004 : 16:43:35

Al, New Jersey's bays tend to be shallow, except for the channels.
The 250WB draws over 5-1/2 feet, which will definately limit your sailing grounds. However, I have seen C25s on Barnegat Bay.

Harry

Edited by - on

SoCalGary
Deckhand

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USA
6 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2004 : 21:03:49

AL C<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I have an '04 Honda Pilot V6 AWD that is capable of towing approx. 4500# (according to Mfg's specs), ..... do you think the Pilot can handle pulling the water filled boat out of the water and up the ramp?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Hello AL_C,

Like you, I too have a Honda Pilot (2003 AWD). As I am finalizing my decision to buy either a wing keel or a Water Ballast 250, I was disappointed to learn that the Pilot is just a hair off from what would otherwise be a great tow vehicle. 245 horses and 242lbs of torque would just about do it. The 2005 has 255 HP and 250 lbs of torque. Sounds like most partially loaded 250 WB's on the trailer are around 5,500 lbs. The Pilot weighs less than the boat, which I understand can also be a problem.

We love our Pilot none-the-less. A great resource is www.honda-pilot.org

I am now considering keeping the boat in the water year-round (easy to do in the San Diego area, but not cheep).

I will use my dads F250 to haul it around as needed.

Still debating the choice on getting the trailer now or wait.

Keep me in the loop on what you decide.

SoCalGary
Carlsbad, CA (San Diego)

Edited by - on

sailorman
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2004 : 22:09:30

Well, just for fun: I have a Jeep Wrangler with the 4.0 six @ 190HP. I have used the Jeep to tow my wb "On Eagle's Wing" out of the water several times. It has enough power and I have towed the boat short distances (50) miles to my house on two occasions. This is not my regular tow vehicle but it is my work car and the easiest to get to as my wife has the Chevy Trailblazer which is the long distance tow vehicle. Yes it is too small, but if used like a yard tug it will do what you want it to. If you work within your limitations and know them, you will be fine.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2004 : 00:44:17

IMHO, the Pilot is capable of pulling the C-250 up a ramp and take it a short distance at low speeds, cautiously. You're right up at the manufacturer's limit, but much of that has to do with the wheelbase and weight of the Pilot. If a towing vehicle is too light and especially too short, you run the risk of fishtailing and jacknifing when turning, braking, decelerating, or descending hills at highway speeds (above about 35 mph). That's worse than simply overstressing the vehicle--that's putting yourself and others in danger. I've felt it under somewhat different circumstances, and it's very unsettling.

For towing with that vehicle on the highway, I'll point out the C-22, Catalina/Capri 18, O-Day 192, O'Day/Stuart Mariner, and a number of others in that size range--all well suited to Barnegat Bay, and even OK for a short jaunt into the Atlantic on a nice day.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2004 : 08:39:10

I agree with Dave. I tow my C250WB about 85 miles a year with my Toyota Tacoma 4 cylinder, 4 wheel drive. Much consideration is givin to wind and vehicles passing. 45/50 mph is about the high end for this vehicle. I have used my Toyota for four years doing this. It should also be noted the boat is not towed with any weight bearing items only the mast, motor and battery and select light weight items.
Also Al there are methods on this web site for "Blowing" the water ballast out before removal of the boat from bay or lake. "Bear" C250 WB "On the hard in upstate New York"

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2004 : 13:46:51

Al,
Buy the 250 WB! I have one and I sail it in skinny water, (Rehoboth Bay, Delaware)all the time.
While you might not want to pull the girl over the rockies with the Pilot, New Jersey is pretty damn flat. The boat doesn't weigh that much drained and zipping it up the ramp full of water is hardly going to overheat the transmission. Just pick low traffic hours and take your time.3250#s leaves you 1250#s to play with.
Harry states <i>"The 250WB draws over 5-1/2 feet, which will definately limit your sailing grounds. However, I have seen C25s on Barnegat Bay."</i>
I will say that I rarely have the board fully extended as the boat seems to balance better with it canted back a bit. It will not take you long to learn the bay you sail in especially if you have a decent chart and a depthfinder.
Your alternative for a lightweight trailersailor is the Hunter 240 which from my dockside neighbors experience tends to be a bit light for those days when you might be tempted to slip into the ocean.
Finally, this is the perfect time of year for someone from the east coast to be boat shopping as the Annapolis Sailboat Show runs from today through Monday. My understanding is that a lot of guys from this website are going to meet at the Catalina display around 3PM on Friday which would give you a great opportunity to really look the boats over and get some face to face feedback.
Good Luck!
Willy

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2004 : 17:22:13

If you opt to tow the C250 any distance (on a public road), do not exceed the max tow weight of the Pilot, or the Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR). The latter is the total weight of the completely loaded tow vehicle and trailer. If you were to exceed either limit and get in an accident, your insurance could be void and you could be liable.

Edited by - on

sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2004 : 21:25:51

I'm confused with the 5 1/2 feet spec....board down fully 5'9" board pulled up 1'8". I keep my wb in a wet slip year round in very skinny waters...love the fact that you can adjust the draft with a slip of a line. Just get a reliable depth finder for those shallow areas.

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2004 : 07:26:01

Suzie, I am not sure what prompted the discussion, but last year the published (by catalina) draft with CB up was questioned. I think the discussion had to do with the rudder length. When I measured the depth of my rudder I found that it was in the water over 2' (I think it was 28"). Well if that is the case the rudder is deeper than the CB pulled up (not good) So it prompted me to measure my draft while the boat was on the trailer using a line level and yardstick. I came up with 29" thats CB up as far as it would go.

Edited by - on

CapnEddy
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2004 : 14:46:09

Al,

I have a 250WB that I regularly tow around California with a Mercedes ML320 (215HP/233#ft torque & 5000# towing capacity) & have never encountered any difficulties.

In July this year I towed the boat from the Bay Area up to my mother-in-law's island in Puget Sound. I set the cruise control on 60, sat in the right lane, and enjoyed an uneventful 16 hour drive (usually 12 without the boat). There were a few steep grades in the mountains where I could have used more oomph, but overall it was a satisfactory adventure.

My calculations put the boat/trailer combo very close to 5000# towing capacity so probably be a bit over your Honda's limits.

Edited by - on

ceryes
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2004 : 17:07:39

My sugestion is: buy the 250, use the honda for very short distances but rent a U-Haul truck for most of the hauling. I did haul mine from Florida to New York with a Mercury mountaineer with no problems. Balancing the trailer is very important to reduce fish tailing.

Edited by - on

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