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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

a little engine advice please

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bill bosworth
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USA
172 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/11/2004 : 14:12:00

I currently own a 1999 Honda 9.9 XL with a manual start. I love the engine but my wife can't pull start the engine. I looked into converting it to electric start but the price gets out of hand. So I am thinking of selling the Honda 9.9 and buying a Honda 8 with or without a electric start, or a Nissan/Tohatsu 9.9 electric start. I have always had Honda engines I don't know anything about the Nissan. There is a big price difference between the Honda and Nissan. I wonder how people like the Nissan engine, how well it fits the engine mount on the boat (our boat is a 1995wb). If anyone has a Honda 8 with manual start, how easy is it to pull. And any other observations you might have on my situation.
Many thanks
Bill
c250wb #134 Serendipity

Bill c250wb #134
Kerr Lake, NC

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2004 : 17:00:35

Bill,

I have a 2004 Honda 9.9 XL, but it has an electric start. However, there is supposed to be a compression break that kicks in when using the pull starter to make it an "easy" start in that mode. I test yank mine every so often just to make sure it lights off w/o the starter. Have you had this checked? Since your engine is 5 years old it might be gummed up or otherwise malfunctioning.

Edited by - Jeff McK on 10/12/2004 15:43:28

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2004 : 17:39:12

Hi Bill, good to hear from you. The motor you have is actually a 15 hp motor and detuned to 9.9 so its going to be harder to pull over than an 8 hp. I don't discount the previous posters concern about the de-compression working properly however.

The newer model 8 - 9.9 are the same motor and very easy to pull start, but the non electric start model doesn't have the high output alternator which is kinda nice. My grandaughter could pull start it easily when she was 4.

A great motor was the Honda Classic 8 which is very easy to pull start. It is a great kicker on inland lakes, but not suitable on larger bodies where the boat may suffer significant swell. I used one for several years on the Great Lakes but suffered prop break out in rough conditions. On the local corp lake, it never broke out and was very suitable. Note: Readers be aware that I wouldn't suggest that motor at all on the wing keel model as it sets 3-4 inches higher in the water. That motor is still available even though not listed on Honda's web site. It was made for a while in an extra long shaft but no longer available as such...and it was never available in an electric start.

There has been lots of chatter about the Tohatsu, and I'm sure you will get some response from those who can tell about it.

Edited by - on

bill bosworth
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172 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2004 : 17:39:26

Jeff;
I've had this engine since it was new and it has always been the same, I don't know if it has a compression release, but I'll look into it, it sure needs one!
Thanks.. Bill

Edited by - on

frog0911
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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2004 : 22:26:50

Bill, We have the Tohatsu 9.9 XLS on our 250 and it has been excellant. I purchased it instead of the Honda because of the 30 pound weight difference. The Tohatsu 9.9 4 stroke XLS weights in at 91 lbs. with electric start. The manual start is also easy to pull. The only thing I would change on the motor is the shift lever which is still on the right side of the engine. I would like to see it on the front of the motor like, I think, the new Honda has it.
I am not sure, but I think online outboards has them for around 19 BU's.

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
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389 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 15:47:26

30# less for the Tohatsu! Geez, that sure is a significant difference, especially if you have to take it off for the winter or other maintenance. On the plus side, a crook is less likely to try & make off with the Honda unless he's got a really strong back.

Edited by - Jeff McK on 10/12/2004 15:48:00

Lightnup
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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 20:16:16

Arlyn said:<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Readers be aware that I wouldn't suggest that motor at all on the wing keel model as it sets 3-4 inches higher in the water. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Arlyn, I assume you mean a wing keel C25 sits higher than a swing keel C25? If so, thanks for the enlightenment. All this time I've been wondering whether I've either got too much heavy crap on my boat or if the core might be completely water-saturated somewhere because it sits deeper in the water than another C25 in the marina. Assuming that the other is a wing keel, there's one less thing I have to worry about. Thanks Arlyn.

Bill - I have a 1997 Honda 8hp four stroke. It's very easy to pull and usually starts from cold on the second pull. I just have to remember to avoid smacking the stern pulpit stanchion with my elbow when I pull it. $%^&@^"*, that hurts!

Steve

Edited by - on

528
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181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 21:48:12

I have to agree with Frog. Our boat came with the (2001) Nissan 9.9 XLS. It has been excellent on economy and reliability. We recently motored 5 hrs. down Saginaw Bay, and it never skipped a beat. It is easily removed from the transom after removing the lock. I did modify the cable mount to allow additional steering range. We have wheel steering with pedestal controls. I use a double soft link for steering, which makes life sooooo simple.

Edited by - on

frog0911
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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 22:39:10

Jeff, a crook will make off with anything he wants bad enough. As a matter of fact Honda's are the most stolen motors off of boats. I guess it is the name and reputation that makes it so appealing.

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mday
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197 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 23:48:16

Frog,

Since you can sail all year 'round there (except when hurricanes are going through

), you must take the motor in for service periodically -- or do it yourself if you're skilled. How often do you do need to do that? I find that the summer here is hard on the fuel system. If I don't haul my motor in for regular service, it usually ends up giving me trouble. It could just be a cantakerous motor (Evinrude 9.9 4 stroke).

Max

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2004 : 08:14:22

Steve, my comments about water line are relative to the c250 not the c25

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Lightnup
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1016 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2004 : 09:47:57

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Steve, my comments about water line are relative to the c250 not the c25<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Ya know...my first clue should have been that I was reading the 250 forum. Sorry, I must have had a senior moment.

Steve

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
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389 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2004 : 16:22:10

Frog,

Good point on the theft angle. Honda cars are among the most commonly stolen as well. Ya can't win.

Maybe some enterprising bloke can come up with a cover that would make the Honda look like a POS & thus less attractive. That or put some C-4 under the cover as a booby trap?

Edited by - Jeff McK on 10/13/2004 16:22:52

JJM
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170 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2004 : 19:27:27

Speaking of Hondas being stolen. I have an 8 HP and purchased one of those motor locks from WM, but when I tried to install it on the motor, lo and behold - it doesn't fit because the motor has no side breathing room on the transom!!

Does anyone know of any kind of motor lock for our boats that works on Hondas?

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2004 : 22:17:23

Max, I took the motor in for the initial 10 hour service, breakin period. From now on I will do the regular services myself. I do all my motors, cars, truck and boat, this way since the dealers have the instruments required to make the ignition and timing adjustments normally required after the breakin period.
What seems to be the primary cause of your engine problems? Is it always the same thing causing the trouble?

Edited by - frog0911 on 10/13/2004 22:19:47

mday
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197 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2004 : 01:32:28

Frog,

Some years ago (maybe 4), the idle jet got clogged up later in the summer. Usually I don't sail much in the summer here because it's uncomfortably hot, but I do try to get up to Lake Pleasant early in the morning to "exercise" the boat. It's nice to get away from my version of the "General" and all her "orders" once in a while too

. The motor still ran, but stalled when you tried to idle. This required a carburetor cleaning and rebuild. This was a fairly expensive repair to have done for those of us who don't have much experience with engines. I can take things apart, but I usually have to defer messing with a carburetor to someone who professes to know what they're doing. The outboard mechanic recommended using an OMC additive to the gas that is a combination gas stabilizer and cleaner. I always use it and it has kept things humming along ....... until this summer. I've had the motor in the shop a couple times since the carb incident for "normal" service -- oil, filters, lube, plugs, water pump, etc. This summer was the 2nd since a previous service and I guess I let things sit around too much and too long in the heat

. The verdict isn't in yet, though. I'm dead in the marina right now and scheduled to haul the Evinrude off the back of the boat and in for repairs next week. I'll report on the damages later.

Max

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2004 : 07:42:05

Max, I also use a stabilizer, called Staybill and twice a year add a carb cleaner to the fuel. I did this once a month when gas was leaded because gum buildup was a large problem. I also add injector cleaner to my cars twice a year to keep them clean. Injector cleaning and replacement is quite a bit more expensive than a carburetor. Injector preformance is more critical than carburetor as it relates to mileage and at todays prices can add up to a bunch of BU's.
Good luck with your engine hope it doesn't end up in bankruptcy.

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2004 : 12:13:35

Bill I have a 2002 Honda 8hp XLS with elec. start. My battery is in need of replacement

and I had to pull start the motor many times this summer/fall. It pull starts easily and I think it actually starts better by pulling than it does with the elec. start.

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2004 : 14:40:12

JJM,

I ran into the same problem locking my motor in place. I had a friend fabricate a short piece of coated aircraft cable with a copper-crimped loop at each end. I ran this through the holes in the handles & then put a hardened shackle marine lock on it. Not bulletproof, but hopefully it will slow the bad guys down a bit. Also helps keep the clamps from vibrating loose. There is also a safety cable going from the boat to the motor. :-)

Frog: Thanks for the hint on the injector cleaner & Staybil.

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