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Ramp challenges

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/04/2004 : 13:17:37

Hi all,

I took Adventurous out of the water for the season, and boy was it tough! Not only because I hate not being able to sail year round, but because I couldn't get the boat centered properly at the ramp. The local DNR removed the finger dock from the ramp, making things even more difficult, but my brother and I had to float the boat off the trailer no fewer than 5 times before we got the keel resting properly on trailer pad.

So I'm considering a mod on the trailer; making a wooden "shute" that will funnel the keel into place. Has anyone tried this with a wing keel? I've seen plenty of these on trailers with fin keel boats. Any problems I'm not foreseeing?

Thanks,

Ben
Beneteau 361
Viking Kitty
Columbus, Ohio

Edited by - on

megrier
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
55 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2004 : 16:59:19

I did try a mod like that on another boat that I had. I went to quite a bit of work to make a chute that would direct the swing keel into the center of the trailer. I bolted 2x4's into the positions that I thought would work best while the boat was in the water. The first time I tried putting the boat on the trailer I found that the position I had put things in was too low. So when I started pulling the trailer and boat out of the water, the boats keel came down on top of the chute and crushed my 2x4's.

At least I didn't hurt the boat! I gave up on the idea after that.

Edited by - on

Bruce Ebling
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2004 : 19:51:34

Ben: I had the same problem with my 89 wing. When I got the wing, I thought that retrieval would be a snap! Boy was I wrong! My previous boat was a fixed keel with a keel guide. With the fixed keel, it was; pull it up to the bow chock and pull her out and she set perfect every time. With the wing, I too had to try 4 times to get it centered and even then I was not happy with it. I plan on doing some serious thinking on how to fix this. Keep me posted on any ideas you may have.
Bruce Ebling
1989 WK "Selah"

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2004 : 20:44:40

Instead of a keel guide, could you use vertical side guides at the widest part of the hull to center the boat on the trailer?

Edited by - on

Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2004 : 22:03:32

Don's idea will work, use plastic pipe for the uprights, 2 inch works and is stiff enough to stand a litle cross wind. I made pieces that stand at a thirty degree angle to each side and are about 15 inches tall. They are about in the fore and aft center of the wingkeel. They are covered with UHMW poly and the boat always ends up centered. If I could figure out how to get a picture on here I could photograph the trailer and show you. Dave

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2004 : 00:16:43

My trailer came with the keel guides for my wing keel. I haven't missed the trailer in 15 years and I'm usually centered on the first try. The guides are made of 2x10 pine or douglas fir, painted, and covered with bunk board carpet.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

Bruce Ebling
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2004 : 00:28:01

Al: Do you have any photos of the keel guides that came on your trailer?
Bruce Ebling
1989 WK "Selah"

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2004 : 08:07:26

Bruce, I don't have any photo's readily available and I'm afraid I'm not as technologicly savvy as some of our members. I'll see what I can do. Perhaps I can email you some pictures from my wife's digital camera.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2004 : 08:34:13

Thanks all,

Al, pictures would be great if you could provide them. If you like, you can send me the pictures and I can post them.

Dave and Don, I like the idea of the side guides too. Maybe I'll try both.

Thanks again,

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2004 : 17:02:15

OK, I took some pictures of my keel guides today. It was a little overcast and late afternoon but I think you'll get the idea. I'll send them to Ben and he can post them on the site. By the way, I measured the boards. They are 2x10s. Those parallel to the length of the boat are 5' and the entry guides are 2'4". Width between guides is 2'4" inside edge to inside edge. That should do it until I get the pictures t Ben.

Al
GALLIVANT @5801

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2004 : 18:45:40

Thanks Al, I'll post them as soon as they arrive.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2004 : 22:50:16

Remember to design it so the keel can't get caught under the guide (say you pull at a different ramp which has a different angle and the keel misses the guide and the boat comes out off center) else the trailer will literally hang from the keel when you attempt to re-launch

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2004 : 23:09:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Remember to design it so the keel can't get caught under the guide (say you pull at a different ramp which has a different angle and the keel misses the guide and the boat comes out off center) else the trailer will literally hang from the keel when you attempt to re-launch

!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ya know...when I first read this topic, I wondered the same thing about a keel guide in respect to the winglet. If the guide is over the winglets, it would seem that one might have issues, like you mentioned, with the wing floating up and hitting the guide or when retrieving, the winglet sitting on top of the guide if the trailer were on a deeper ramp.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2004 : 08:17:21

Winglets hanging up under the guide is not a problem since the guide is a 2x10 attached directly to the frame. Mine has a floor area built onto the frame so that crud from the road doesn't foul up the bottom of the keel.

What can happen is the winglet overriding the top of the guide. This happened to me on my first retrieval 15 years ago. As I was pulling the boat out I heard a loud scream - my wife. The wing had caught on the top of the guide and the boat was tilting as I pulled it out. When I stopped the truck the keel slid off the guide and into place without any damage. It hasn't happended since. After the first try you'll get a sense of how deep the trailer has to be for this not to occur.

Another aspect is that I have a 10 foot tongue extension so I can get deeper in shallow ramps. A very handy feature but makes estimating proper trailer depth a little trickier if you're by yourself, which I often am. We have been blessed with adequate water depth on Lake Superior and contiguous waters in recent years, so I haven't had to use it.

Anyway, the usefullness of the guides far outway the problem of the wings hanging up on the guides.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - aeckhart on 11/06/2004 08:25:05

Bruce Ebling
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2004 : 16:55:35

Al had sent me the photos of his wing keel guide system and wanted me to post them for him. They look like they would work great as long as you don't land on top of them. Judging the water depth to retrieve would take some trial and error. Thanks Al for sending these great photos!

Bruce Ebling

Edited by - Bruce Ebling on 11/07/2004 17:00:43

Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2004 : 17:27:44

Bruce, How do you post digital pictures on this site? I could take pictures of our trailer and the changes in the cabin interior but I don't know how to post them to this site. We retreved our boat today with no excitement so our keel centering system must work well too. 2 hours drive to town, put boat on trailer at ramp, lower mast, clean up for the road, go to car wash and clean bottom, and drive home. Nice trip up the river yesterday too, sailed downwind 20 knots or so wind velocity for 30 miles, stayed on the boat overnight, underway this morning under power at about 3.3 k saw two bald eagles, several otters, muskrats, deer, kingfishers, ospreys, and sailed the last two miles through town to the dock and ramp when the wind came up. May be the only boat to sail into town this year, Dave

Edited by - on

Bruce Ebling
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2004 : 19:29:58

Dave: Well I am certainly no expert on web based stuff, but I will explain my way of posting the photos and if I steer you off base maybe someone else can chime in. I take the photo I want to post and size the photo to about 800X600 pixels. Then I place the photo on this website: http//www.http://www.shutterfly.com/ There you will need to create a login and a new photo album. Once you have the photo uploaded to Shutterfly then when the photo is being displayed right click on it and look at "properties" this will give you the address for the photo. Copy that address by a right click and "copy". OK now that that is all done go to the forum message you are working on and type (img) then paste the address of the photo that you have on your clipboard in, then on the same line type (/img).
Note:Replace the parentheses around the img's with the square looking brackets, (lower case right next to the P button). That should do it, preview the message to see that it looks ok and you should be in business.
I am looking forward to your photos!
Bruce Ebling
1989 WK "Selah"

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2004 : 07:34:20

Thanks for the pictures Al, and thanks for posting them Bruce. With your system, I hope retrieval next year will be much smoother.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2004 : 13:05:28

Ben,

You are welcome on the photos. If you install something like this remember that when you retrieve your boat, be aware that you can get the trailer too deep. This may cause a winglet to hang up on top of one of the guides. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the boat will slide into place without incident, but it looks scary when the boat tilts at a radical angle as you pull it out of the water. Once you have the proper depth worked out you can't beat the system.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2004 : 20:09:47

Thanks Bruce, I will try to get some pictures of our trailer and boat tomorrow and try to post them soon. Dave

Edited by - on

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