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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Mounting Deck Hardware

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chewitt
Deckhand

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Canada
5 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/16/2004 : 18:47:57

I'm looking for some information on mounting deck hardware (deck organizers, rope clutches etc) without drilling through the deck. The technique involved drilling oversize holes, filling with expoxy and inserting a threaded fitting to screw machine screws into. I know this was referred to in an answer to another question, but I can't find it (I probably just don't know how to look). Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks. wch

wch

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2004 : 20:41:28

Hi Colin... I'd recommend against it. One way or the other, you're drilling into the plywood core, which is only 3/4" thick. The whole deck or cabintop is only a little over an inch thick. Through-bolting will give you a bullet-proof attachment. That doesn't mean you shouldn't overdrill, fill with epoxy, and redrill, which is the best protection for the core and creates an epoxy compression tube that prevents cracking, especially of the inner liner, from overtightening.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2004 : 21:00:42

Personally, I wouldn't trust critical hardware to hold with threaded inserts. I through-bolt everything on the boat except for a few 'cosmetic' items. A C25 is big enough to generate some pretty good loads when the wind pipes up.

Be mindful that equipment failures on a sailboat can cause serious problems... like injury or death. If you err, err on the side of strength.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2004 : 11:16:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chewitt
 I'm looking for some information on mounting deck hardware (deck organizers, rope clutches etc) without drilling through the deck. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Is your goal a cosmetic one? The inside of my cabin deck looks like a shotgun went off. I have all the bolts from current hardware and the holes from abondoned hardware. I don't blame you if you want the inside to stay as nice as possible. Much of what we use is subject to shear forces (like clutched and deck organizers)as opposed to the lifting forces of a mastbase halyard turning block. Catalina understands this and uses embeded brass plates for machine screws to thread into in some places rather than through bolts. You cannot embed a brass plate. I have seen some "tube nuts" that have an exterior flange and the threaded tube then sinks into the hole to accept a bolt from the other side. I have only seen theses used with wood but if you flatened the flange spurs you could possibly epoxy them in place and get away with it. I just don't think the end result would be any better cosmetically than through bolting. I had an "ah ha" momont a little over a month ago that might help. A friend came over to my boat and helped me mount a SS handle on the inside of my main hatch, (ever have a hard time sliding your hatch from the inside?) it through bolts through the teak strip on the front lip of the hatch. As I mentioned that we would need to cut the bolts as short as possible he said well you only need enough for a small fender washer, a split ring locking washer and an acorn nut. All over my boat I have bolts carfully trimed to accept a small fender washer, a nylon filled lock nut and an acorn nut. Why have I been leaving bolts that long when they could be shorter and look nicer with just a small fender washer, a split ring locking washer and an acorn nut? My point is that you do have some cosmetic control by the hardware you choose. Were I you I would through bolt and choose my hardware wisely. Good luck with the project.
There are many configurations to consider, what are you trying to accomplish and what deck hardware are you looking at?

Edited by - on

ChrisDara
1st Mate

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USA
88 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2004 : 11:48:02

I wouldn't recommend it either. I just drill an oversized hole all the way through, route out a little of the core, put tape on the bottom, and pour in epoxy. Let it dry, redrill the hole and now you have not only made things stronger but sealed off the core. Also, if I do get a leak, I'd rather know about it than not while it penetrates the core.

IMHO durability, reliability, and ease of maintenance is more important than cosmetics.

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Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2004 : 18:02:05

I was thinking about using some of these caps to cover the nuts/threads of all the fasteners. Might not hurt so bad when I bang my knoggin on em.
http://www.stockcap.com/vinyl-caps.html

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Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2004 : 20:41:11

Unless the equipment has a large vertical component in its loading the non thru the roof mounting technique will work fine. The loads on much sailboat equipment look large and are past the strength of people but to epoxy and metal they are trivial. Shear loaded stuff, deck organizers and line stoppers, for sure can be mounted without through bolts. Dave

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2004 : 22:00:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Happy D
 I was thinking about using some of these caps to cover the nuts/threads of all the fasteners. Might not hurt so bad when I bang my knoggin on em.
http://www.stockcap.com/vinyl-caps.html
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Dan: Do you want to hit your head on a vinyl-covered bolt end, or a large, round, smooth acorn nut? I'll take the latter.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2004 : 22:41:45

"Do you want to hit your head on a vinyl-covered bolt end, or a large, round, smooth acorn nut?"

I've er... shall we say, 'tested' both... as far as typical head-bangers, I'll take the vinyl. :>) Something about the slight amount of give in the vinyl makes it pretty effective at taking the sting out.

If you were to drop me on a bolt end from a 5'drop I think I might take the acorn.

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ChrisDara
1st Mate

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USA
88 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2004 : 10:21:34

Sounds like you all need some hard hats. You're a danger to youselves. haha

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2004 : 14:19:19

Do I need to post the bloody picture again?

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sanibelle
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2004 : 22:33:15

On the inside where the water tank fill line comes through the deck, I noticed some brownish ooze dripping down the wall. I resealed the deckside fitting. I still see evidence of a leak in the same area after a heavy rain. I think I have the fitting sealed pretty well. Is it possible that the water is entering somewhere else and is travelling through the core to where the fitting comes through the deck? Anybody have any ideas?

Joe - '80 Catalina 25 FK/TR

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Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2004 : 18:25:02

Yes it is possible that some other fitting is leaking. The most likely is the chain plate or the stantion or pulpit for the lifelines. Dave

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John J.
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 16:10:20

What is the brand/type of epoxy you would use to fill the oversized holes?

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thacket3
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2004 : 10:28:15

When you drill the larger sized hole, how much larger? what do you use to route out the core? I have seen pictures of a nail bent to do this, but just wondered what does the best job?

Also, Sanibelle, I had the same problem. It was the chainplate on mine.

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2004 : 17:08:10

I have used an old allen key chucked in the drill, as well as the bent nail maneuver. The rule given by West was two to one for drilling: that is, for a 1/4 inch fastener, drill a half inch hole. I have actually gone a lil bit bigger on occasion, fair winds ron srsk Orion sw fl.

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chewitt
Deckhand

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Canada
5 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2004 : 22:22:49

Thanks all for your replies. As with anything to do with boats there is no simple answer. I'll have to do some more thinking before I decide what to do. Fortunately, there's little else to do for the next four months except plot and scheme. I thought someone had some details on how to do the non thru-deck method. I'll keep poking around. Take care all. wch

P.S. I would probably drill the holes out 5/8 in either case and fill with semi thickened West System Expoxy. I've already experienced the wrong way to drill holes through the deck!

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