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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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A question of sails and uses

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/21/2004 : 11:14:27

My boat came with a number of sails as I guess most do. What I don't know is what I would want to use the 150% Genoa for. What conditions or type of sailing? I am correct in my understanding that this is a front sail and not a main sail aren't I? I haven't actually had it out and it's raining and icing here, so I don't see the opportunity to do that soon. It looks almost new to the eyes of this rookie.

Rick

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 11:24:25

The 150 is a light air sail. You use it when true wind speed is less than about 8 mph.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 11:32:12

A genoa is a large jib (headsail). The percentage number indicates how much larger it is than the "foretriangle" of the boat--described by the forestay, deck, and mast. So, a 110% sail overlaps the mast and mainsail by a little, and a 150% by quite a lot. You presumably have at least those two sails... Another common variation is the "storm jib" or other sail smaller than 100%, for obvious reasons. Your 150 is best in winds from about 5 to 10 knots, or light-to-moderate air. Above about 12, you'll probably want to downsize to the 110. Below about 7, the 150 can help or hinder--it can be difficult to keep that large a sail full, particularly downwind, in very light air, unless you use a pole to hold it out (downwind).

I recommend you start with your 110--it's easier to handle as you learn the other things about your boat, and you're less likely to find yourself overpowered if the wind picks up. You'll know when you're wishing you had a little more power up front, at which time you can break out the big genny!

Keep the questions coming--we're all still learning here! (BTW, are you going to take some lessons or have an experienced sailor work with you the first few times out?)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/21/2004 11:47:24

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 11:53:57

Thank you Larry & Dave,

Continueing on this theme, if the wind drops below 7 kts, can I furl the 150% in a ways so it would be more likely to stay full, effective making it a 110, or doesn't it work that way with a larger sail due to decreased angle of the spar? For the record, my other jib is a 135%, I don't have a 110%. In winds above 10 kts, I have sailed with the main sail (no reefs, haven't quite figured that out yet), and my jib furled in so that it's about 1/3 exposed. This seems to give me a comfortable balance of power and control and I was only heeling over between 15 & 20 degrees instead of the 25 to 30 with the 135% jib out full. Is what I'm doing making sense or am I just futzing around?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 12:21:37

Ohhhhhhh.... You're saying you have a roller furler. (?) Then I think you're right to (1) use the 135, and (2) roll it up partly so you still have some power up front and feel comfortable in the boat. The more you roll up a genny, the worse it's shape will be, so rolling the 150 far enough to be comfortable in winds above 10 will give you a less efficient sail than doing the same with the 135. I have only a 130 on a roller, and have never wanted more (but I don't race). Part of the joy of a roller furler is not having to haul the sail down, unhank it from the forestay, and fold and bag it. I'd suggest that you leave that 150 looking new in its bag--you have a very versatile sail in that roller 135.

Generally, the best way to reduce heel is to reef the main, since it's area is higher (a higher "center of effort"). Learn to reef the main, and leave 2/3 or more of your genny out for a nicer ride and more speed. (You can reef with the sail down before you leave the dock, and then "shake it out" it if the wind fades.)

Heeling can be controlled in other ways--easing the sheets and flattening the sail shape. The former is simple, and the latter involves some additional controls and techniques. Particularly with the main, think about easing it to the point that it just barely starts to luff, and then tightening it just enough to eliminate the luffing. Unless you're trying to beat as close to the wind as possible, sheeting in hard does not necessarily give you the most boat speed--especially in light air. Going easy on the heeling can give you more speed as well as more comfort.

Now, one caveat: I'm talking from the point-of-view of an only moderately experienced Catalina 25 sailor (with 50+ years in various other boats)--I'm not familiar with the Capri, except to understand that it's a somewhat higher-performance boat.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/21/2004 12:38:55

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5937 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 16:39:36

The Capri 25 is a sloop (i.e., a sailboat with two sails. The front sail is generally referred to as the jib, and the other sail is the mainsail.

Sailboats are designed to be sailed in a wide range of windspeeds. The general rule is that you use less sail area in stronger winds, and more sail area in lighter winds.

There are two ways that most sailors can decide which sails to raise in any given amount of wind: by experience, and by trial-and-error. Until you have enough experience to know which sail to use, then select a smaller jib. If you put up sails that are too small, there's no harm done. If you put up sails that are too big for the amount of wind, you'll scare the heck out of yourself and your guests. If the boat heels excessively and you feel the tiller pulling hard in your hand, those are indicators that you should reduce the amount of sail area.

Your 135% jib is a good, general purpose sail that can be used in a wide range of wind speeds, but there will be many times (usually in the spring and the fall) that the wind will be too strong for the 135. In that case, roll up some of the jib and tuck a reef in the mainsail. Until you become proficient at reefing the mainsail, put the reef in before you leave the dock.

As others have said, the big 150% jib is used in the kind of light winds that you often see in mid to late summer.

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 17:07:58

I just recommended these two books to John J. who had a question about the traveler.
I recommend “Sail Power” by Wallace Ross. Ross’ book will be a bit heavy for a novice but will serve you well as you get used to the boat. Of course every sailor’s bookshelf has “The Annapolis Book of Seamanship” by John Rousmanier. The seamanship ship book is a bit thin on sail handling but has a good little section on sails and their controls.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 18:12:51

Thanks again Dave, and Steve as well for the great explanations.

I think I understand why there is a 150% with this boat now. The winds on the lake are predominately in the 6 to 12 kts range coming off the mountains, (except when it's stormy). Seems that would be the best use for the 150% genoa. This boat was raced a lot by a PO, though not be the one I bought it off of.
As to reefing the main sail, I have a feeling I am either missing a piece of hardware or not recognizing where to put things. My mainsail has only one tack reef cringle at the luff of the sail. Nothing in the leech. The main is also "free footed". I understand that I should loosen the boom and lower the halyard so as to get the reef cringle on the horn. There is 2 clasps on the topping lift, one being about the same distance up as the tack reef cringle, so I'm thinking I attach the boom to this up to this taking it off the lower one. When I do this however, things really don't look right. The sail is obviously lower because of being attatched at the reef cringle at the luff, but now the boom is going in the upwards direction towards aft because it is attached at the second clasp on the topping lift. The sail is not correctly shaped because there is nothing holding it in place on the leech like there is on the luff. No doubt there is a reasonable explanation and I am missing something, but I don't know what it is.

John G, thanks for the book references. I saw your other post and had already written them down.
I'll get a hold of copies of each asap. I am currently reading "Sailing, The Basics" by Dave Franzel and "This Old Boat" by Don Casey. The latter being more of a repair manual and dealing with actual sailing. I've got to do something this winter!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5937 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 19:31:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My mainsail has only one tack reef cringle at the luff of the sail. Nothing in the leech.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Now that you mention it, a lot of racing boats don't have reef points on their mainsails. I don't think Capri 25s usually have reef points, and it sounds like yours doesn't have one. I think the grommet that you're referring to is probably a cunningham, used to flatten the mainsail. The Capri 25 is a racing boat, mostly for inland lakes, and it relies on the crew to trim the sails for heavy air. As I recall, the lack of reefing on the Capri makes good sail trim and the correct size of the jib critical.

The 150% should only be used in light air. In strong winds, where you might have to partially furl the jib, you should use the 135. When you deeply furl a 150, you roll a lot of it onto the headstay, and it loses its shape and is very inefficient. You can deeply furl the 135, without ruining its shape.

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Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 19:57:51

Based on recommendations here, I recently found and purchased Sail Power - hardcover, on eBay for $5.00. While it's a bit scholarly, as John G pointed out, I've got a much better understanding of the concepts and "laws" of using airflow to power a boat.. It should be in every sailor's library. Oh, and they should read it too.

Steve

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 22:24:37

Last week, while I was trying to stay out of the way of my new dock neighbours who were busy rigging my boat and patiently explaining it all to me as they worked...it was suggested that I get a copy of 'Sail Power'. In addition to 'Sail Power' I picked up a used copy of 'Sailing Fundamentals' by Gary Jobson. Jobson's book uses very well drawn diagrams and examples that are strikingly similar to a C25 or C27. Its a terrific begginers book.

Edited by - stampeder on 11/21/2004 22:26:12

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2004 : 05:32:27

Thanks again to everyone who provided insights, tips, explanations and book recomenndations. Gotta say, one fantastic and knowledgable group on this forum. Now if you guys could just get me to the top of the waiting list for a Kittery Point mooring, life would be perfect!

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