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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Winch Maintenance HELP! Lewmar 16ST

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matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/28/2004 : 21:26:22

Looking for some advise from anyone with a little experience cleaning winches. Specifically the Lewmar 16ST, about a 1985 vintage.

Finally got around to cleaning my winches this weekend. I had a problem getting the lower gears out. I could not remove the spindle (16) from the stern (17) nor could I pull out the gear spindle (18, red arrow) to release the lower gears (20 & 21). I yanked on it pretty good and used a short screw driver on the head of the gear spindle. I put a moderate amount of pressure on it, but wasn't sure at the time, so I didn't force it.

Looking at the diagram, it seems to me that these pieces should come right out. I'm wondering if anyone here has experienced this problem with the Lewmar 16ST and could suggest a technique or tool (short of a hammer) to remove them or if you think they even should come out!

John Matsche
PO of 1985 Catalina 25 TR/FK #5171
CO of 1990 Capri 26 WK #97

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2004 : 09:16:53

If they don't want to come out, and look clean, I'd work the lubricant in there best I could and put the whole thing back together and go sailing. Personally I think that, to some extent, winch maintenance is designed to sell maintenance kits...

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618)
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2004 : 09:23:22

Never had to take a winch apart it looks to me that if you removed the winch from the boat, that item number 23 on the bottom has something to do with access to the lower geartrain. Otherwise I agree with Oscar if it works good why mess with it. Also, did you have any instructions available? "Bear" C250

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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1883 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2004 : 12:37:27

John,

Once upon a time I considered doing my winches, so I googled Lewmar and got all the information needed to complete the job. Then something came up ( doesn't it always)and so I sprayed some WD 40 on the Hesus clip on top and spun it around a few times and it has worked perfectly for the last 12 years.
I'm getting the "I better lube my winches ITCH again" and may get to it if only all things would fall in place freeing up some time to do the job but should such not be the case I bought a new can of WD 40.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2004 : 13:26:19

When I cleaned and lubed my Lewmar 16 ST winches last spring I was surprised at the amount of green colored corrosion and hard caked up gunk inside. I too had to work that pin out, it had some gunk in it. After cleaning all the parts and re lubing it they spin better and don't have the "gritty" feel that they did.
I found a bunch of maintenance information on the Lewmar website and printed it out.

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Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2004 : 16:03:46

All I have is the Lewmar winch manual (2002 edition), so if anyone has more experience with the 1985 designs, please jump in.

My book says that the drum bearings (14) & washer under them (15) need to come off first. The photo shows the head of the gear spindle sits above the top surface of the chassis, looks like it should come out easily, and be removed BEFORE pulling the main spindle. (I can't tell from the photo if your model is designed that way or not). It also says "to remove the main spindle, rotate it in a CLOCKWISE direction as you lift it, also remove the ratchet gear" (21)

1. Add more light lube to the spindle and the contact surfaces of 20 & 21 in case they have crud caught & jamming them together. Try & flush out the crud, spin the winch & see what happens. If no improvement, go to step 2.

2. Try to persuade the spindle (part 18) to come out using needle nosed pliers or an icepick or similar skinny tool to wiggle or pry it out from above. You might be able to come in from the corner of the opening where the spindle head sits in the baseplate to get a bite under it to start it out. If this doesn't work the spindle sleeve (part 19) and the spindle are probably glommed together. This is not good.

Take a deep breath. Step away from the winch. Think really hard. Proceed to step 3 only if you are really determined OR stop NOW & seek professional assistance.

3. Take the winch off the boat, go to an enclosed place where the parts won't vanish & try to drive it out from below with gentle to moderate hammer work using a drift pin. (Hint: do all the work on an old towel either down below or at home)

Look closely at the contact surfaces of the spindle, bearing & gear (part 20). If just cruddy, clean & relube. If a part is scored or otherwise too far gone, replace the part, then reassemble as directed.

Good luck!

Edited by - Jeff McK on 11/29/2004 16:10:11

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2004 : 16:18:14

I'd remove the winch from the boat before proceeding any further... seawater has a strong magnetic attraction for expensive or irreplacable parts. The little 'plonk' sound of a part hitting the water could be very expensive.

I've also heard of folks cutting a hole in the bottom of a box or plastic dishpan and fitting it over the winch to help keep parts from swimming off.

If the winch doesn't look bad, I'd be inclined to clean it up as best you can and work some lube into it. I use a product called "LPS-3" It's a light aerosol spray that penetrates and sets up into a thin, corrosion-resistant grease. My winches have been nice and smooth after using it.

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2004 : 16:39:52

ClamBeach,

The suggestion to remove the winch is a good one in this case and should precede my Step 2.

Excellent suggestion about the dishpan! I do something similar with a flat bottomed round plastic bowl. I also go so far as to put a couple of sticky-side-out loops of duct tape under the bowl to hold it on the cabin top. All parts that land thare are then transferred to another bucket & taken below for work.

So far no splashes, but I'm sure Mr. Murphy is just waiting his turn.

Another reminder from the manual: Be sure the drain holes on the underside are clear of debris & bedding compound when attaching the winch to the boat.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2004 : 06:52:06

Thanks for all the post.

The articles I've read about winch cleaning reinforce what you guys have said about parts that won't come out easily. That is, if it ain't broke, clean and lube in place the best you can and go sailing. So, that's what I did, and they sound and feel great.

Mine had been "squeaking" a little as of late and 2 weeks ago while on the lake my starboard winch started squeaking even louder and felt like it was trying to seize up, so I quit using it. I had always "meant" to do the maintenance, but just never got around to it. Honestly, I was a little intimidated by the thought of parts and pawl springs flying off as I raised the drum off.

In reality, it wasn't that bad. It took me and hour and a half to do the first winch because I was moving slow, taking pictures and examining every little thing. I was surprised as to how simple it really was. After that, it only took about 30 minutes to do each of the other two. The pawl springs didn't fly off and with a little patience, I was able to easily re-install them.

The shoebox is a great idea. I also read an article in the latest Mainsheet that said to drape a sheet, towel or canvas over the life line to prevent parts from finding the water.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jeff McK
 to remove the main spindle, rotate it in a CLOCKWISE direction as you lift it<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Excellent tips! Next year when I clean them again, I'll employ these to see if those stubborn lowers won't come out. Unless something is broken, I'll probably avoid step #3!

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2004 : 10:16:10

John,

Glad to hear everything worked out OK. Fair winds.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2004 : 14:53:59

I used to maintain the Lewmar 55 ST's on the Big Cat. I found that if you lay the parts out in a straight line as you remove them, it's a lot easier to get them back in the same order.

I used to clean them one at a time using carburettor cleaning fluid - makes an excellent degreaser.
Derek

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Jack Heaston
1st Mate

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48 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2004 : 19:50:17

Hi John
Sorry for the late post. I don't check the combined 25/250 Forum as often as the C25 one.
I share your confusion with cleaning the 83 vintage Lewmar 16STs. They are a POS. After cleaning 2-speed ST Lewmars on bigger boats, I thought the 16ST would be a piece of cake. It wasn't. First of all, it was not obvious how to get the cap off. Fortunately the owner's manual showed a picture of a block of wood being beat on with a hammer, not the circlip, four Philips head screws or hex nut on the newer winches. The winch came apart easily and was fairly straightforward until I got down to part #21 on the exploded drawing, which BTW does not describe my 1983 model 16ST. The hole where the drive gear (#20) enters the spindle housing is simply too small to allow the removal of the main gear at the base. All of the other Lewmars I've serviced allowed the gear to pass out that hole.
After searching the Lewmar website, I found an admission that "some of the older model Lewmar winches have to be removed from the boat to access the drivetrain." Splendid! I emailed them to the effect that it was absurd to design a winch which could not be serviced in place, thus guaranteeing that no one was ever going to clean the damn thing. I also asked that they offer to trade my older 16STs for a more modern version where this shortcoming had been corrected. They have not found it convenient to reply.
Anyway, I reached into the opening with a solvent saturated Q-tip and cleaned every gear tooth one at a time and reassembled the winch after cleaning and greasing it and the other parts. They work fine under load but are still stiff freewheeling the jibsheet until it comes tight. I plan to remove the winches this coming spring, but am nervous about what holds the main gear in place. Accessing the portside winch is a real bitch from within the lazarette and I am not looking forward to rebedding the damn things either.
Sorry to whine, but this is really disgusting. Hope you have good luck with getting them apart and back together.
BTW, I've never had a pawl or a spring go over the side, but I've seen others accomplish it. My boat lives on its trailer in our yard, but I still use the shoebox with the hole cut in the bottom. The 16STs are pretty straightforward and they only go back together one way (except for the red and white spacer washers), unlike the 2-speed models, but I like the idea of setting out the parts in the order in which they came off.
If you don't have the 83 model owner's manual, let me know and I'll mail you a photocopy of mine.
Best regards,
Jack 83 FK/SR 3944 Ragact

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