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Boom/Rigging Conundrum

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bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/31/2004 : 20:58:06

Well, it's probably not really a conundrum but I am wondering how you all have your boom rigged at the gooseneck. When I raise the main, the boom raises (up to the access slot) .. then when I reef, when I lower the main the boom drops down to the horn cleat in the slot, so that I then have to lift the boom by hand when I tighten up the reefing line (to bring the leech cringle to the boom and so the boom is level). I'm wondering how you other more experienced have rigged your boom so that you don't have to lift it by hand... (I do use a sail stop so the boom doesn't rise and fall out of the access slot, which did happen once). Hopefully this makes sense. TIA.

Bill B
1984 C25 FKSR "Wind Dancer" SF Bay

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2004 : 21:25:54

I use two sail track stops, one below the gooseneck and one above, to keep the boom in position essentially making it a fixed gooseneck.

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 01:19:15

Mine is fixed, as in screwed to the mast, below the mast slot.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 02:17:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 I use two sail track stops, one below the gooseneck and one above, to keep the boom in position essentially making it a fixed gooseneck.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ditto plus a short line belayed to the horn cleat so I can't winch the boom up through the sail stop. It's the green line led from a padeye on port to the horn on starboard.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 05:07:47

I have a jam cleat in the kerf below the gooseneck: a line runs from the gooseneck to that cleat, preventing the boom from rising. I also have a stop in the kerf below the gooseneck to keep the boom from falling.

Brooke

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 11:38:09

I use a track stop to hold the boom up... and a short line belayed to a cleat below the boom holds it down. You won't get much shape to your main with the boom riding up! :>)

Frank, what's that round white 'doughnut' shaped thing hanging from the mast?
(nice rigging... drooling)

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 12:33:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 ...Frank, what's that round white 'doughnut' shaped thing hanging from the mast?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Looks like rigging tape.

Back to boom setups...

On North Star, the cunningham is pretty much set at the beginning of the season and forgotten, with mains'l luff tension being set by the main halyard. The cunningham simply consists of a short line with one end fixed on one side of the mast with the other end of the line led up through the cunningham grommet, and then back to a cleat on the other side of the mast. The length of the cunningham is determined so that when any tension is applied to the main halyard, the cunningham takes the load instead of the gooseneck, which is probably the weakest link in the whole rig. Max hoist is also figured in.

This setup is simple (no cunningham hook to fall out), cheap (4-5ft of line), and results in one less line led aft.

Edited by - dlucier on 01/01/2005 13:04:44

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 15:03:11

Yep. rigging tape.
Don, I really think that the Aluminum and SS pieces of the gooseneck are all stronger than the sail cloth. My Halyards are intended to get the sail to full hoist at a proper luff tension, the cunningham is intended to further flatten the sail and pull the pocket forward when the wind builds while sailing to windward. What does you gooseneck do when you adjust the boomvang tension or the main outhaul? Does it move?

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 17:55:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 Don, I really think that the Aluminum and SS pieces of the gooseneck are all stronger than the sail cloth.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The opinion that the gooseneck is the weakest part of the rig is not just mine, but one that I have read numerous times in various sailing articles and, if memory serves me correctly, I believe someone here experienced a gooseneck failure. There's a lot of stress put on that little piece of stainless securing the boom to the gooseneck.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com

My halyards are intended to get the sail to full hoist at a proper luff tension, the cunningham is intended to further flatten the sail and pull the pocket forward when the wind builds while sailing to windward...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My halyards (jib and main) are also used to set the proper luff tension. As far as luff tension is concerned, does it matter if tension is applied by the halyard or the cunningham? Tension is tension.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 What does you gooseneck do when you adjust the boomvang tension or the main outhaul? Does it move?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, my gooseneck doesn't move. With the stops in place, it acts essentially like a fixed gooseneck like those on C250's. (Didn't the later C25's have a fixed gooseneck?) Tensioning the boomvang mainly puts tension on the leech of the sail and doesn't affect the luff. Having a fixed gooseneck doesn't really affect the outhaul adjustment.

Quite honestly, I don't play with the luff tension that much. Most of the sail adjustments I tinker with underway are the outhaul, boomvang, mainsheet/traveller which I find have considerably more affect on sail shape than luff tension. Since the predominant winds in my area are moderate, I set a moderate amount of luff tension when I raise the main and leave it there for the rest of the day.

Could I get that last 1/4kt if I played with the luff tension? Maybe, but with the sailing I do, there isn't much difference between 6 and 6.25 knots. If speed were the primary goal, I wouldn't have roller furling.

Edited by - dlucier on 01/01/2005 18:09:27

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 18:57:00

Thank you all... I thought I might be missing something but the basic principle is obviously the same. I do have a horn cleat in the kerf (now I know the proper name for it :)) that I use to tension and tie down the gooseneck so it doesn't rise. Of course the problem is when I have to reef. Adjusting a sail stop below the boom will take care of that. Since all my lines are still at the mast this is easy to do.

I sailed with Jim W on "Hey Jude" one day and saw that he has a 4x block on the gooseneck with lines led aft - to act as a cunningham. This seems like a great way to tension the luff of the main, but I forgot to see how he handled reefing. Hopefully Jim can chip in here too ...

Bill B

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 22:04:00

I've found that a track-stop below the gooseneck can get "driven" down each time you release the main halyard so that the boom drops with some impact on the stop. I've been thinking about inserting something like a short aluminum rod into the slot so it sits on the downhaul cleat (which is frozed to the mast).

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 22:43:21

I have owned two boats which were originally set up for a sliding gooseneck and were modified to prevent movement and "fix" the gooseneck in place. In both cases the answer was to drill and tap a hole in the mast slot and insert a s/s bolt. The bolts are easily removed when necessary. Of course, neither of these boats I mention were trailerable, which would require the boom to be removed with regularity---the boom came off only for winter storage. I currently use a couple of track stops, but will drill the slot when I get around to it ( long LIST)ron srsk Orion #2343 SW FL

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2005 : 17:34:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ronrryan
 ...will drill the slot when I get around to it...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I used to have a round tuit somewhere around here... Can't find it anywhere.

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2005 : 12:32:30

Hi Bill and all,

We will definitely rendezvous somewhere around Angel Island sometime this spring!

The blocks you mentioned are a purchase for down-hauling the boom. Works like a cunningham. I also have tried a cunningham, but cannot see any difference in performance since I have the down haul.

I have a sliding gooseneck and mast gates to prevent losing the slides from the mast slot.

When I reef, either first or second, it goes like this:
Release all tension from downhaul, outhaul, vang.
Ease out mainsheet all the way.
Raise the topping lift about a foot (to get pressure off the sail).
Haul on the single-line reefing until it stops.
Release the main halyard clutch and ease down the main halyard and haul on the single-line reefing at the same time until the fore cringle almost touches the boom.
Check to see if the aft cringle is touching the boom.
Lock down the main halyard clutch.
Give the single-line reefing one final tug to bring the fore cringle down to the fore boom. (It actually lifts the fore boom to the cringle.)
Release the topping lift.
Trim the main sheet just enough to stop flapping.

This sounds like a lot, but it takes about 30 seconds.

If I plan to sail a long time reefed I also do the following:
Go forward and secure the reefing strings around the boom.

Then it is just normal trimming. Often I do not have to use the boom downhaul if I did not let too much slack get into the main halyard.

I installed the blocks on the boom for the aft cringles such that when tensioned they pull just like an outhaul and keep the foot tight.

When it gets bouncy on the Bay (often), I sail with two reefs in the main and the roller furler pulled in about 20%, still making hull speed.

The benefit to me of a sliding gooseneck is that I can tension the luff using the boom downhaul without taking the bitter end of the main halyard to a winch and finding the winch handle to tighten it.

Others solve the problems differently, I know, and it all works.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2005 : 13:54:04

Jim,great reply.I,m especially interested in what Bay sailors have to say,we get some of your wind in Rio Vista and I'll be moving my boat in your direction in the next year or two.

When you reef your headsail is that from a 135 or 110?If it's a 135 and you reef the recommended 20%-30% to maintain sail shape is that enough of a reduction in your windiest conditions?I,m about to order the sail for my new furler and want to base the size on SF Bay wind.

I will rig my 150 genoa seperate from the furler maybe with a 2nd headstay maybe without for the 2-3 days a year we have light air

Thanks,Craig

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bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2005 : 13:51:28

Jim,
Thanks for the reply.. I will look forward to our rendevous! Any other C25 SF Bay sailers out there that want to join us?

I wish I had paid more attention when you reefed!

Thx
Bill

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