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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Chainsaw vs cockpit

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seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/01/2005 : 17:17:56

Happy New Year!

What is the construction of the C-25 cockpit? Gelcoat to fiberglass to wood, or what? The below happened today when I was using abovementioned saw to cut up and remove a HUGE block of ice (heavier than my 170 lbs) that had formed over the starboard cockpit seat due to tarp sagging. It's not all the way through but I'm wondering how I should go about patching it...and if I should cover it now so water doesn't get into it.

I hope this posts correctly. Yes, I'm still smacking myself about the head over this. I'm learning that while I may be able to get the boat in/out of her slip and sail her properly, I'm lacking where mechanical ability and manual dexterity are concerned.

Bob

Seastream

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 17:41:06

Bob,

For now, just put some sturdy adhesive tape over the gouge. (Duct tape for instance.) The following assumes the wound is in a more or less horizontal surface. If the damaged surface is vertical, that complicates matters some, but not a lot.

Once the temperature of the deck is warm enough to use epoxy, mask around the oops and fill it with liquid epoxy (such as WEST). After the epoxy cures, sand or grind it back a few thousandths of an inch below the original surface. Use matching gelcoat to finish filling the repair back up to the level of the original surface, and to protect the epoxy from sunlight.

And be glad that chainsaw didn't get ahold of you!

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 17:52:34

Bob,
You definately want to cover it. With our weather, any water that does get in there is going to freeze and thaw repeatedly and that is going to make the damage worse by spring.
We should let each other know where in the yard our boats are so that we can help each other by giving them a look when we go up there. I was up there last Sunday, but am not going to be this weekend. If I had seen the water in your tarp, I could have given you a heads up or done something while there. I've brought most of my "projects" home so only planned on driving up every couple of weeks. Let me know if you want to make some kind of helpful arrangements. You can email through this forum or if you have Jim's list, I'm on there.
Repairing that isn't going to be fun where it's in the nonskid, but I'll bet folks here will have good advice, or ask Wayne at Fay's.

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 19:52:20

Leon, the 'oops' as you so kindly put it, is indeed on a horizontal plane...the starboard cockpit seat area. Rick, Fays' has me drydocked at their satellite location; I don't recall the name but it's on Lily Pond Rd. I'll go there tomorrow, clean & dry the area as best possible and duct tape it. Below are more pix showing a wide angle of the gouge, how I incorrectly covered her by not removing the stanchions to produce a more perfect 'a frame' shape for better drainage (yard uncovered her bow to fit the other boat in, thanks), and why I felt the ice needed removing. Thanks, guys!

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 21:15:47

I would try by supporting the mast a few feet higher. A couple of sawhorse type supports should do it. That would provide the additional slope needed for draining.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 21:36:53

Just curious, why did you have them take down the mast?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 21:38:53

Man, I HATE when I do that!

Bob, I'm suspicious that duct tape won't give you a good seal on that non-skid area. When I had drilled some holes that I had to leave open for a day or two, I dabbed some Life Caulk (or other non-adhesive stuff) on the holes, and then was able to easily dig the caulk out when I was ready to bolt the hardward through the holes. I'm thinking you could do something like that to your "slot".

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/01/2005 21:44:39

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 21:46:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by existentialsailor
 Just curious, why did you have them take down the mast?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Some yards require it.

Edited by - on

Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 22:06:02

Bob,
I think you'll find that the core material in the seat is balsa. That being the case it's extremely important that you not allow water to penetrate and soak into it during the rest of the winter. I would find a scrap of plywood or better a piece of plastic or fiberglass scrap fill the gouge with caulk, house type caulk not silicone, and then press the covering piece of plywood or whenever over it to seal it. Dave

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 22:12:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Laux
 Bob,
I think you'll find that the core material in the seat is balsa...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Balsa? Wow--fan-ceeee! I'm guessing thin plywood (not the 3/4" stuff in the deck and cabintop). But the caution still holds.

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2005 : 22:19:31

Atgep, I agree, but removing the stanchions should provide the same better slope that moving the mast higher would...unless you meant raise the mast higher along with removing the stanchions. Rick, I have the mast unstepped because I think it's better that the rigging not remain tensioned all winter. If I'm wrong, no harm, it's only a matter of time/money. Dave, I think you're right...I'll have caulk in my bag when I head boatward tomorrow.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2005 : 00:21:20

I am sorry about your boat. I really like having my mast raised, it provides slope and lets me work under it very comfortably.

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Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2005 : 00:27:58

Jee I'm glad I live in the south!
Sorry for the misfortune!

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2005 : 08:35:12

Dave,

Bob and I are in the same yard, my mast is up, that's why I wondered. He answered my question. The yard doesn't require it.

Bob,

If you remove the stanchions, you now have a lot of entry points for water unless you are going to close all those holes...

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2005 : 12:15:39

The trick to installing a tarp is to ensure that there is a sharp angle from the mast down over the stantions so no water or snow will accumulate and form pockets which over time will become so heavy that they will cause this sort of problem. Removing the stantions each season isn't necessary or practical.

To solve this problem I lash two 2x6's across the stern pulpit and lash two milk cartons on top of them. The ends of the wood are covered in carpet so as not to puncture the tarp.

I made a false "mast" from a piece of 2x4 and insert it into the tabernacle to raise the mast sufficiently to form a sufficient angle between it and the stantions to allow for adequate tarp drainage.

I repeat the process at the pulpit and my tarps don't trap ever increasing amounts of water snow or ice causing sagging. It's not an "elegant" solution but it works eavery year and I started doing it after my first winter season when I experienced the same problem with the tarp accumulating water.

The wood under the cockpit is likely plywood and I'd take all measures to ensure that water doesn't get inside since freezing damage will occur. I don't know if simple silicone will set in the temperature where you have your boat stored butas a temporary measure I'd give it a try and then cover it with some duct tape and hope for the best.

Thankfully the chainsaw didn't get a piece of you. The damage boat can be easily repaired when the weather permits.

Edited by - oldsalt on 01/02/2005 12:25:40

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2005 : 19:20:58

Bob,

Just to let you know, I just cleaned about 8 to 12 inches of snow and ice off my boat today. I lay my mast on a crutch that reaches about a foot above the stern pulpit and rests on the bow pulpit. I have a
center support at the mast base. The trick is to bungee the tarps down at the stanchon bases and use a smaller tarp. I do not cover the top sides (side of the boat). In my opinion it is unnecessary since it is a vertical surface. I've been doing it this way for about six years with no problems. The only critical aspect is adquate pitch which allows snow and water to drain off and, as snow builds, allows the weight to be carried down and out rather than directly on the tarp structure. You also need a light supporting structure under your tarp. I use 1x2 and 1x1 firring strips - they are cheaper than 2 by. Others use a rope lattice. I use 6 1x2 from mast to stanchon base and 6 1x1 mounted horizontally on the 1x2/s to provide ridigity and additional support. The only ice I ever get accumulates on the weather (side) decks, which helps to stretch the tarps a little and thus tightens them up against the wind damage.

By the way, we average about 250 to 300 inches a year here in Northern Michigan. I do have some experience when it comes to boat covers. Beileive me, I've tried everything until settling on this method.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2005 : 20:27:08

I went to the yard today. Fortunately, no precip last night so the cut seemed dry. I had caulk, duct tape & a hair dryer with me. Temp today was hovering above 32. I heated the area carefully to ensure it was dry and somewhat warm, then quickly took the caulk & tape out of the warm car and did the deed. I covered it with a board & cinderblock. It actually looks good with just the caulk in there, but I'll do better this spring. She'll remain uncovered (again) this year unless I can get another tarp and rig it as I've been advised here. The old one had some holes poked in it by the stanchions and some odd tears in it...like they were caused by some sort of saw

Thanks again for all the advice. BTW, why cover boats anyway? Only benefit I can see is that it minimizes the damaging effects of UV from the sun.

Edited by - on

Steve Shetter
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2005 : 21:37:32

Bob,

Many years ago I had an encounter with a tree, a chainsaw and my left ankle. No serious damage except about 30 stitches and my pride. After seeing what happened, I would still vote for the ankle... it heals by itself.

Good luck,

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 00:23:31

It kind of reminds me of when my brother shot his waterbed with his 45. But that is another story.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 07:57:51

Dave - Our yard requires the mast to be down while on Jackstands - you can leave it up if on a trailer or cradle. They Claim its an insurance issue as in "the insurance company says we have to. I'm sure its probably the same at many yards.

As for the hole. Sealing it up with duct tape, then re-applying the tarp should hold you over until the spring.

When its time to repair, Mix the west system with micro-balloons or colloidal silica as a fairing compound and fill the hole. When it hardens, sand it down with 80 grit for the rough spots then work your way to a 200 grit. Depending on the size of the cut, you might consider not filling it with one batch of sauce. The epoxy gets really hot while mixing, and you don't want too much heat down in a hole you can't see. If the hole isn't too deep this shouldn't be a problem. However, it is imperative that if you need to fill the cut with multiple mixings (and you might if its really deep) that you follow the directions for timing. The second batch can be added without sanding within a given time window.

Once the crack is filled and faired. Get some gel coat, an aerosol sprayer (I forget the name, but they are sold in the paint and gel coat aisle for about 15 bucks. Similar to this

Mix 10 percent lacquer thinner to the gel kote. Match the color if your bold enough, otherwise go with white. Spray the stuff just like paint. Lastly, spray polyvinyl alcohol over the area using a regular mist type atomizer. (I use an old glass plus bottle) Use this stuff liberally. Let it dry then wash off the film from the alcohol.

You'll be able to tell the area is patched, but it will at least look good...

dw

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 12:09:32

Duane -

I just posted a question regarding cabintop paint color matching and THEN read your post in this thread. Do you think the process you described here (spraying white gelcoat and then polyvinyl alcohol) would be the way to go to touch up the area where the jib sheet has rubbed away the color on my cabintop?

Steve

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 12:38:26

Bob,

Sorry to hear about your oops. Coulda been worse. It could have been your LEG, and duct tape is no good for fixing that. Good luck with the repairs.

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 19:25:35

Looks like a job for Marinetex

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 20:54:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Lightnup
 Duane -

I just posted a question regarding cabintop paint color matching and THEN read your post in this thread. Do you think the process you described here (spraying white gelcoat and then polyvinyl alcohol) would be the way to go to touch up the area where the jib sheet has rubbed away the color on my cabintop?

Steve
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't know Steve - I'd really need to see the area. Is it really bad scuff marks, or is the gel coat really worn through. Our Yacht club has a professional boat glass guy as a member. He did mention that matching the color is a tough job for a pro, let alone hacks like us. (my phrasing not his)

I really can't see jib sheets wearing the gel coat that badly, unless you are using shackles on your jib sheets, in which case you might have some seriously bad scuff marks. In either case, you might want to try a really good scrubbing. Soft Scrub then if that doesn't work acetone. (acetone disclaimer: Use sparingly, use only once - do not continually wash any area of gel coat with acetone, use only if other cleaners have failed, rinse thoroughly, be sure to re-wax the area when done, wear gloves, whear ventilation)

If on the other hand your gel coat really is worn away, you'll want to seal the area with the epoxy first, then put down some gel coat. On one of the repairs I did on the wasp, I didn't try to match the color, I went straight white and tried to display my masking talents with a perfect trapezoid over the area - figuring a good repair that is visible is far better than a good repair that looks like heck.

If you have pics of the area, please post.

dw

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 23:29:51

Duane - Here's the spot I'm talking about. Not sure what it's from.

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