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I was almost scammed

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kenz
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/11/2005 : 19:09:40

I was almost scammed and I want to put my story in the Catalina site. Hopefully no one will fall for this scam. I know all the sailors out there rather put their money in their boat, or better yet by a new one.

I put up for sale my Catalina 25 on your web site. I am not sure if it was your web site or other nautical classified web sites. A person who said he was from Cambodia tried to scam me. He said he wanted to buy my Catalina 25. I told him that I will not sell the boat until I have American currency in my hand. The day I received the money order, I got a email from him saying that the bank made a error and combined the price of the boat and the exporter, and told me to send it to a person in Netherlands. The money order was from the Waypoint Bank in Harrisburg Pennsylvania. There is such a bank (banks) in Pennsylvania. I called them up and found out it was counterfeit.

Ken

Kenneth Zwibel

Edited by - on

coach
Navigator

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USA
231 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2005 : 22:59:15

I tried to sell my old 22 on a few websites and they attempted to do the same thing.

I got the guy to call me, give me a return number. Called it back, got him and gave the
number to the police.

Edited by - on

centurion
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2005 : 08:22:10

This is a growing problem. When I sold a Webbcraft powerboat on ebay I got two enquires, one from Hong Kong and one from South Africa. They wanted to send a cashier's check, then have me send the balance of real money to the "exporter" to handle the pickup and transport. The Cashier's check would be bogus, of course, and my "refund for the excess" would not. For some reason they look for boats and expensive cars. I do not sell outside the lower 48 anymore, and never take cashier's checks since so many are counterfeit now.

Edited by - on

falkon
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2005 : 00:06:24

These scams are pretty common when trying to sell boats on the internet.They have tried to scam me both times I have sold boats on the internet,I recieved offers from all over the world, of course I was already aware about these scams so they did not work with me .If it sounds to good to be true don't do it. To get more info on these scams go to:
http://www.sailingtexas.com/chumor4.html

<hr noshade size="1">
Louis Mares
'84 FK/TR

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2005 : 18:01:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by centurion
 I do not sell outside the lower 48 anymore, and never take cashier's checks since so many are counterfeit now.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This issue of counterfeiting of cashiers checks is a serious problem when trying to sell a boat or motor vehicle. If you can't trust a cashier's check, what are the alternatives? I guess the seller could insist on cash, but personally, I wouldn't want to be walking around with thousands in cash, and I think there is a law on the books that banks have to report deposits of $10K or more to the Government; the presumption being that anyone with $10K in cash is a probably a criminal of some kind.
The problem isn't just cashier's checks, either. When I made my cross-country drive to Virginia in 2003 to buy my '89WK, I discovered to my distress that most truck stops would not accept my AmEx/AAA Traveler's Cheques, because of counterfeiting! I had purchased $1000 worth of these in $50 increments to buy fuel with, not wishing to run up my Visa card, and ended up having to buy almost all of the fuel for the trip on the credit card. I got back to Sacramento with 18 of the 20 cheques still in my wallet.
I guess the next time I need to sell a vehicle, I will have to arrange a direct bank-to-bank wire transfer, since cashiers checks can no longer be trusted.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2005 : 19:35:44

WOW
I didn't know that there were counterfit certified checks out there. That's scary.
when I sold my Catalina 22 I used a broker, made more money selling it in North Carolina rather than Tennessee, even with the commission. I don't know if the money going through the broker gives you any protection, but when I sell my 25 someday, I'll use the same broker.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2005 : 21:46:16

When I received a 'check' in payment for my boat...from a scammer, it was not a true cashier's check, but a check typed up and printed to look like one. Actually, it was a made up personal check, and not worth what it cost the 'buyer' to Fed Ex it to me.

Edited by - on

stewendkos
Navigator

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USA
109 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2006 : 12:03:09

Friends,
It works th other way too.My wife collects antique dolls;hence the name "My Doll".She tells me stories about her doll club members sending funds to sellers and NEVER hearing from them again.She sometimes spends up to 3k for a doll,and now has become gun-shy to buy anything from people she does'nt know."Paypal" works,but alot of folks don't belong to it.
Steve

Edited by - on

dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2006 : 19:00:20

Me, I'd rather take a check. If it's counterfeit and readily visible as such you can throw it in the garbage and forget about it.
If you can't tell whether it's counterfeit you just deposit it in the bank and WAIT 15 - 20 days before you turn title or the vehicle over to make sure the check has physically really cleared (even though I'm not sure that checks really get cleared anymore). The important thing to remember is to wait the full 15 - 20 days to make sure the check doesn't come back to you.
But the one thing you should NEVER, EVER do is let a stranger know your bank and account no. and that's what you would have to do for a bank to bank transfer. NEVER, EVER let a stranger know your bank nor your a/c no. because we live in a new world and they CAN empty your account and your bank will say they had your authorization to do the withdrawal. NEVER, EVER let a stranger know your bank nor bank a/c no. Am I being repetitive here? Sorry.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2006 : 22:57:34

Although I am new to keel boats, I have bought and sold a fair number of airplanes, and this scam has been common in that field for several years. I have a check for over a quarter million dollars drawn on a real casino in Tennessee - no good of course, but from a real bank and a real casino. I have it framed on my wall. (We caught the problem in the way I describe at the end of this message, I lost nothing.)

I disagree with the previous advice. A check is not certain to be good ever really. It can bounce 2 months later or more. Your are better off with a wire. So how to solve the "giving away my bank account number" issue? Go to your bank manager, tell him or her what you are doing, and ask them to open an account just for this purpose. My bank charges me nothing for such an account. I only have it open long enough to receive the wire, then it is closed. They can put a watch on it to make sure every transaction on this account is examined by hand, and they can also set it up so that money can only come in, not go out. Then give THAT account number to the purchaser.

When a wire has arrived, it has arrived, and the money is yours. It cannot be reversed, stopped etc. except under circumstances of proven fraud by you, the reciever. It is much more secure for you than a check.

Wires are the gold standard for purchases between countries for this reason.

In the case of the $272,000 check I mentioned above, I asked for a wire, but the purchaser sent a check via overnight courier, with a note to deposit it into the account, and asking the bank to notify me that "my funds had arrived". If I had not been paying attention, I might have interpreted such a phone call to mean that the wire had arrived. But since the bank had been tipped to watch the transaction, there was no chance of such confusion.

My two cents, FWIW.

Edited by - on

danandlu
Navigator

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USA
174 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2006 : 09:00:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My two cents, FWIW.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Worth a lot! Excellent, smart advice.

Thanks.

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dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2006 : 10:42:43

I've never had a FOREIGN check take 2 months to clear let alone a domestic check, but in any case it's good advice to wait long enough to make sure it cleared or open another bank account like Kevin said above.
In an age of electronic transfers, giving strangers access to a/c numbers is a NO NO.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2006 : 11:18:25

The problem is that even after a check is cleared (i.e. the money is in your account), it can still bounce. I have been over and over this with bankers, and basically in the fine print in your account agreement it says that if a check is returned after any period of time, the bank can just deduct the money from your account. Almost all checks are cleared "speculatively" by the banks, using rules they follow about what bank the check is from, and the funds are transfered OUT of your account speculatively now as well. Example: A check for a boat purchase from you, the seller, is written on someone's account without their knowledge. You deposit it, and it goes to some other bank, and is "cleared". The money comes out of "someones's" account. Maybe they notice the balance going down, maybe not. But when they get the check copy or actual check back in their statement, or balance their checkbook, they notice it, and dispute it. "That is not my signature." (Banks don't check signatures on checks at the time of receipt any more, unless a watch has been placed on the account due to previous fraud issues.) The bank agrees, and reverses the check. If there is still money in the account that received it (your account), the money comes out as much as a month after the check is "cleared". Now your boat is gone, and you don't have the money. Domestically this process is limited to the 60 to 90 day period (or whatever) that your bank allows statement disputes. For a foreign check, the process just takes longer due to transit times, a corresponding bank that the money moves through, etc etc.

Conversely, with wires, the sender does it in person (or has a solid gold relationship with the bank), and it is on the sending bank to make sure BEFORE the wire goes that the sender is who they say they are, that it IS their signature, and that they have the funds. All of that gets checked by the sending bank, because a wire cannot be reversed, except in the case of fraud by the recipient, and that has to be proven, usually in court as far as I know.

Edited by - kevinmac on 01/26/2006 11:21:35

stewendkos
Navigator

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USA
109 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2006 : 12:45:53

Kevin,
I've used wires and your idea abut a temporary account really takes all the problems (worry) about giving my account
Great info
Thanks,
Steve

Edited by - on

stewendkos
Navigator

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USA
109 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2006 : 12:49:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stewendkos
 Kevin,
I've used wires and your idea about a temporary account really takes all the problems (worry) about giving out my account#
Great info
Thanks,
Steve
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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MrLouie
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2006 : 02:59:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dblitz
 But the one thing you should NEVER, EVER do is let a stranger know your bank and account no. and that's what you would have to do for a bank to bank transfer. NEVER, EVER let a stranger know your bank nor your a/c no. because we live in a new world and they CAN empty your account and your bank will say they had your authorization to do the withdrawal. NEVER, EVER let a stranger know your bank nor bank a/c no. Am I being repetitive here? Sorry.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your bank and account number would be on every personal check that you ever write to anyone. I know you hear about people being robbed this way, but since that information is out there for anyone that you will ever send a check to there must be more to it.

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Stephanie
Deckhand

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USA
6 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2006 : 09:32:56

This is an age-old scam..the people who run this scam usually say they're from Africa or Southern Europe. I've had them try to scam me twice. They always want to send you a money order for several thousand above the asking price, and they want you to send them the difference.

The thing is, the money orders they send are counterfeit - and look so real that banks don't even notice it until later.

next thing you know, the bank is coming after YOU while the scammers have thousands of dollars in free money..

Stay away from international sales, especially if they're trying to give you a money order, check, or anything that's above the asking price!

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2006 : 15:06:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MrLouie

Your bank and account number would be on every personal check that you ever write to anyone. I know you hear about people being robbed this way, but since that information is out there for anyone that you will ever send a check to there must be more to it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good point MR. Louie, So is the routing number for that matter. There are exceptions, Bank One (and I’m sure others) for example has a different account number on the checks. I tried to set an employee up for automatic payroll deposit and it was bounced back because the account didn’t exist.

You can easily have your bank account set to only allow funds to wire in and not out. (note that a wire is not an EFT to pay a regular bill out of you checking account). And some of them give wire in only numbers to their accounts. I constantly hear commercials about banks with totally free checking, as if that is some sort of new revelation. In todays economy, free checking, free atm, free online bill pay and the like is expected. It is the banks that offer these special services plus fraud protection etc that make the difference to me not the guy who can yell we have a lot of free crap for you louder than the next. It therefore is that type of bank that gets my service.

Edited by - on

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