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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Need more help on the 10hp Honda

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Doug C.
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/05/2005 : 00:24:46

The motor is a 82 or 83 Honda 10 hp long shaft (model # is B100L). Thanks to some great help from the forum I changed out the impeller with no problems!

Also cleaned up the carb, new plugs, and fresh oil. A general going over to get it ready for use.

Started it and had great flow of water coming from the pisser.

Let the engine run a few to warm so that I could adjust the carb, and it starts to idle rough. Tinker with it some and then notice some light brownish foam coming from the crankcase vent tube.

Shut the engine down and note that the other side of the motor has the same oily goo running all over, apparently from up under the flywheel somewhere.

I'm guessing a blown head gasket or something along that line is letting water get into the crankcase. Any thoughts from the experts?

Doug & Mo Cavin
1990 C25 TR/WK #6010
"Valkyrie"

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2005 : 07:19:28

I think your suspicion is likely to be right... Water mixed up in the oil is reaching its boiling point--your oil is probably milky looking after the engine has run a little.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2005 : 14:37:20

Doug,
How bad was your old impeller? It could be the water pressure from the new impeller has made a head gasket problem obvious that hidden before. When I worked on mine the only time I saw anything that resembled what you describe is when I flushed the coolant system with vinegar. The discharge was light brown. With any luck it might be old fluids, that have suddenly come under pressure. If so that would probably flush out. As Dave said, check your oil for a milky color. If no water is getting in the oil run it a while and see what happens. If it continues, check your plugs for signs of the contaminate.
Joe

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2005 : 16:57:24

Doug C,

Check your crankcase oil for water. Since you just changed it, it should look fresh, clear and clean. If it looks milky, then you likely have cooling water leaking into the crankcase. Another possibility would be a blown top crank seal, or other seal, from a clogged crankcase vent or just old age. Check around that oil separator in the vent system at the front of the motor, just below the flywheel. If that were clogged, loose, or cracked it might explain your symptoms.

It might be possible for salt water to eat through into the rocker box of the cylinder head, but that's a long shot. Let's hope it's nothing worse than a clogged breather or leaking head gasket.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

mwalkup
1st Mate

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USA
79 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2005 : 15:13:58

Doug,
I had the same thing happen to me around Christmas time.
I had started my 83 honda 7.5 to leave my slip when I heard an unfamilar pinging sound. I quickly shut the engine off, and
continued to sail, figuring I'd either make it back in later or I wouldn't, no sense in ruining the day.
Before I cranked the motor I checked the oil, no problem there, she started just fine and sounded like her old self.
As I was pulling back into my slip, my nephew called out "whats that white gunk coming out of the motor polluting the lake".
Sadly it was the feared water and oil concoction mix.

I took my trusty friend to the motor emergency room, and they told me
it was more than likely one of two things 1) blown head gasket.
2) cracked block.
It would cost around $500.-$600. to tear it down an replace the head gasket, if that was the problem. $800. or more if it was the block or such. Plus they could not guarentee that it would all would work as it should because of the way a new block would fit to the old head.
Mr.Sisson's has a point it could be another cause, maybe. It's just so expensive to tear into one unless you want to do it yourself.

So faced with that conclusion I opted to spring for a new Tohatsu 9.8
motor. I hated to see the honda go but, as someone on this site, I think it was said, "If you can keep a dog, a motor or a wife for 22 years you've done good". My wife was'nt to amused.

Anyway, I just did'nt think putting more money into the motor with the chance of something else going wrong was the way to go.
Good Luck whatever you decide.
Mike

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 08:17:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mwalkup
 Anyway, I just did'nt think putting more money into the motor with the chance of something else going wrong was the way to go.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

At least with an outboard, you can walk away from a serious problem by buying a new one for no more than about $2000~$2500. With an inboard diesel, even a small one like the 9.0hp Universal/Kubota that was installed in some Cataline 25's, you're looking at $8,000 for a re-power, unless you can do the work yourself and save some of the labor charges. $8,000 is more than the whole blue-book value of most Catalina 25's. I had an opportunity to buy an '89WK right here in Sacramento a couple of years ago, but decided to pass on it because of the thought of how expensive it would be to fix or replace the diesel if it turned out to have something wrong with it.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 10:04:38

The inboard diesel has its advantages too... no motor mount to fool with, no mounting/dismounting the outboard for trailering, no gasoline on board. and (potentially biggest advantage) no ventilation in a steep seaway.

With a FWC system (freshwater cooling) and regular maintenance the diesel should outlast the owner. (You should get at least 6,000 hours before 'major service'.) That is a lot of runtime in a C25.

As with a lot of other things on our boats, sailing venue has a lot to do with what's the 'best' equipment to go with.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 10:49:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> no motor mount to fool with, no mounting/dismounting the outboard for trailering, no gasoline on board. and (potentially biggest advantage) no ventilation in a steep seaway. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The transom motor well of the c250 is appreciated because it eliminates three of the four drawbacks... the fourth, the diesel, I might even have to rate the smell more serious than having gasoline on board, though I agree with the safety issue of diesel.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 03/08/2005 10:56:14

bobmac
1st Mate

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USA
47 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 11:34:19

You could do a compression test on both cylinders to see if its the head gasket or a seal. I don't have my shop manual with me, but I'm guessing around 125-135 psi would be good. Do a wet test (squirt oil into cyclinder chamber) and see if there is any difference between the 2 readings of both cyclinders.

If the engine has ever over-heated (failure of waterpump impellor), it can warp the head and blow the head gasket quite readily.

btw - the cost of changing the head gasket is more labor intensive than parts cost. In fact, with a shop manual, you could probably do it yourself.

Edited by - on

Doug C.
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 13:41:22

Lot of great info and insight given here. Thanks All!!

Spoke to my local Honda dealer to see how available parts would be. He indicated that a common failure point on these motors is the plastic oil fill assembly. Apparently it has an o-ring seal and seals not only crankcase but water jacket too. He indicated that they warp over time and the o-ring also will fail allowing water into the crankcase. I'll check this first. If I'm lucky it could be fixed for $30 worth of plastic.

I agree that it's not worth putting much into it, If I can't do the repair myself fairly cheaply then it is not worth doing. I just hate to see a perfectly good motor go south like this.

Upside is that if the Honda is toast it means Valkyrie will get a new motor and the Johnson Sailmaster from Vakyrie would go on the Windrose.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 16:57:10

If you don't want the motor I'll take it.

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