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East Nonations, A Rock!

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DrDre
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/22/2005 : 01:25:54

That was the name of the rock I hit last summer as the season came to an end. It was your typical story, Uncle king-of-the-sea takes 6 year old nephew out for a short boat trip before dinner, uncle was looking at one rock above the water and giving it a wide berth, nephew not impressed with uncle's vast maritime knowledge, toward end of cruise uncle happens to find the only rock smack dab in the middle of the channel (albeit not well marked, at least not on the water). Bone jarring crash and uncle is sure nephew is in the water or at least tossed from stern seats onto cabin sole. Nothing doin'. Nephew is laughing hysterically and uncles panic. Now he has a story for Mom...and Grandma...and Aunt Karen...and cousin Catherine...etc.

So this spring's big repair is of the damaged keel as well as some do-overs of gelcoat projects that I goofed last spring. The next day after I hit the submerged rock my fiance' and I took our chances that all was well with the boat and took off for our transit of Long Island Sound, the whole sound!, out to Block Island, RI and back. That's about 110 miles each way! We never felt any extra-ordinary problems in Ananda's performance, except for that bloody tender bow (we're adding 300# in chain and sand this summer).

After hauling this winter I saw what had actually happened. The leading bottom edge of the keel is a bit flattened, the bottom of the keel is scraped, and the aft starboard fin of the wing was bent up slightly. There are some before and after shots of the keel from when I first looked at it. The after pics pertain to me rough scraping the bottom of the keel to get rid of barnacles and then hammering the bent areas back into shape. There is still a lot of work to be done but I think it's managable, or am I kidding myself. There isn't any other structural damage, except ye ol ego.

The big question is how do I fix that leading edge? Fairing is necessary I know but how is that done to lead? Once faired properly do I need to put some sort of barrier or fiberglass coat on before I repaint? How does one work on the very bottom of the keel?

I'm sure I'll have more questions when I get up to the boat again. Waiting some sort of warmth to grab hold over here.

Thanks in advance and this should be a good lesson for everyone about checking and rechecking charts even when you think you know the waters your traveling in.

Thanks for your help,

Andre'

Click for photos: http://homepage.mac.com/andrerica17/PhotoAlbum4.html

1998 250 WK "Ananda" #373 City Island, New York

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2005 : 07:33:08

YIPES!

The photos really say it all. That must have been a rude & scary event. Glad nobody got physically hurt. Are those barnacles growing on the damaged portion? If so, how long after you hit the rock did you wait before pulling the boat out? If it was me, I'd have had that sucker out of the water ASAP.

While you've got the boat on the hard, (and assuming you have not already done so) have a very close look at the joint where the keel is attached to the hull. Look for a hairline crack in the fairing material. Hitting it that hard may have damaged the sealant layer. Also check the condition of the holes where the keel mounting bolts come through into the bilge for damage. Check the bolts for tightness (torque wrench).

I'm not a hull repair expert, but it would seem reasonable to replicate ALL of the original coatings on the keel. I'd consult with a pro for this one.

Access to the very bottom of the keel may require an extra stand or two to take the load plus some creative block arrangements.

Good luck with the repairs.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2005 : 09:06:44

Andre,

I'm of the opposite opinion from Jeff. The repair looks very managable once the barnacles are removed. A lot of sanding with a disk sander, application of fiberglass matt to seal the keel, fair with fairing compound, finish sand, and paint. Lots of time and work? Heck yeh! But certainly a repair you can accomplish in a few days, especially since your boat isn't on a trailer.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2005 : 14:13:57

Andre,

I'm glad nobody was hurt, and I can't give you any advice on your keel. Having said that, that first paragraph of your post was a crackup! I can relate!!

I poked around your .mac site a little (hope you don't mind, I'm considering getting one...) and the City Island/Block Island cruise thumbnails look great, but the slideshow doesn't work. Are we locked out? I'm sure several of us here would find them interesting...

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2005 : 14:42:47

I had the same problem with the other album. I use .mac and I have never seen so many pictures in one album. I think it might be good to delete the album and repost the pictures across several albums.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2005 : 15:33:39

I've never repaired a lead keel, but I'll take a stab at it. First you have to get all the old paint off it. The best way is probably to use a chemical paint stripper. You could probably fair it with epoxy, but it seems to me that the best way to repair lead is with lead. You could possibly get broken wheel weights from an auto tire store, or you could get a bag of lead shot from a gun shop, then melt it down in a small sauce pan on the kitchen stove. Then fabricate a mold of some sort around each repair, to approximate the shape of the keel as it should be, and fill the mold with lead. A mold could probably be fabricated of wood, and it wouldn't have to be the exact shape. In fact, it could be relatively crude, because lead is soft and easy to grind down to the proper shape. In the places where the shape of the keel surface is not significantly changed, but it just has deep gouges in it and perhaps small chips out of it, you could probably just drizzle hot lead over it until you build up the surface a little, and then grind it smooth and to the proper shape.

You might be able to make a mold by fairing over the damaged area with modeling clay to the shape that it should be when repaired, and then building a wooden armature around it. Then fill the armature with plaster and let it harden. When you remove the modeling clay, you'll have a negative mold of the repair. Then put the plaster mold against the keel, with the plaster mold still held in the armature, and fill it with lead.

In order to pour the lead into the mold, you'd probably have to drill about a 3/8" hole into the top of the plaster mold, and put a small metal funnel into it.

I've never done this type of repair before, so it might be more easily said than done, but if it was my boat, I'd try it that way first. If you can't figure out how to do it that way, then I'd suggest using epoxy to repair it. Or, you could use both methods. Repair the big areas with epoxy, and repair the small gouges and abrasions by drizzling hot lead over it. Or, you could take it to the repair guy, shower him with money, and let him figure out how to do it.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2005 : 17:09:33

I have a different take. I think that I would not worry too much about the weight. I personally would probably not worry about the symmetry either, but if I did want to make the keel symmetrical again I would consider drilling anywhere from 6 to 12 little holes and use cheap drill bits as rebar. Epoxy the bits into the keel and then use marinetex putty and form the new keel surfaces. Then grind as needed and finish.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 03/22/2005 17:10:45

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2005 : 17:32:36

Ditto, ditto, ditto, Frank. You have very nicely supported my repair comment. MarineTex would be a better route to go if symetry is of importance. I would prefer shaping what is left as best I can, seal it off, and get back to sailing.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2005 : 17:45:28

And don't anyone forget....The better repaired, the sooner you find the next rock!

Sand, fill, sand, fair, sand, paint, Sail!

Tom.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2005 : 18:11:14

Steve, I've not worked with lead, but have done several aluminum one time castings using sytrofoam and silica sand, called a sacrificial casting as the pattern gets ate in the process. Make the pattern of foam, in this case the repaired area.

Agreeing with Frank that the repair needs bonding with the native casting, I'd use several screws leaving the heads and a few threads exposed. Form the foam to suit...build box around...and the next you would have to verify... with an aluminum casting, silica sand to fill the box works fine, I don't know about lead. Of couse a foam riser would be needed for pouring.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2005 : 18:46:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 I'd use several screws leaving the heads and a few threads exposed. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That sounds much smarter than drill bits, cheaper and more effective.

Edited by - on

DrDre
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2005 : 01:13:49

Thanks very much one and all for your input. I'm printing these responses out to better study them and make some plans. I'll keep you posted (pun intended). Look for more pictures soon.

Jeff Mk - Yes, the barnacles were only growing on the damaged portion. Big rude suckers! We didn't haul the boat until November and this happend first week of Sept. We were really debating cancelling the trip but it was a ten day event we'd been planning for a long time. Of course had anything felt amiss we'd of turn back in a heartbeat. When I took the pictures I checked the joints and keel bolts by sight only. I don't have a torque wrench but now think it wouldn't hurt to double check that too. Also, I was wondering if adding more jacks would enable me to remove the keel supports. I'll check with the yard and see if indeed that's possible. Thanks.

Al - Sorry about the .Mac slide show business. Don't know how to fix it. I need to clean up the "Summer 2004" photos anyway and maybe that will fix it. I upload the photos with very low resolution so room on the server shouldn't be an issue. Frank may be right I should try reposting the albums. I do see that some photos are duplicates and I need to give explanations to all the pictures. Overall the .Mac account is very handy but pricey ($100 p/y). Although it's great keeping family and friends conected through photos. Check back soon for updates.

Hasta la vista,
Andre'

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2005 : 08:25:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DrDre
 I should try reposting the albums. I do see that some photos are duplicates and I need to give explanations to all the pictures. 
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The resolution that iPhoto posts them at is optimal. Are you using iPhoto?

Edited by - on

DrDre
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2005 : 00:57:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The resolution that iPhoto posts them at is optimal. Are you using iPhoto?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, I uploaded with iPhoto. What I meant was that the photos posted were shot low res.

Edited by - on

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