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Surge Brake YUK!

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/06/2005 : 21:19:45

Yesterday I opened the cap on my trailers surge brakes to check the fluid level (getting ready for the B.E.E.R. cruise) and YUK!

There was rust and other stuff floating in a half full reservoir. Today I pulled the reservoir off took everything apart and cleaned and cleaned, looks like new. My neighbor let me borrow his reverse brake bleeder and I back flushed the brake line from the wheels to the master cylinder until the fluid was clear. When I get some gasket material for the master cylinder tomorrow I'll put things back together. If it works great! If it don't, Champion Trailers has new ones for $50.

1997 250 TR WK (sold)
1984 O'Day 28 (sold)
1979 SISU 22
Bath, NC.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2005 : 21:57:04

Tom... wow... they have halved in price since I redid mine six years ago. I only got two good years from the factory settup.

I advise getting an actuator that has a bladder cap and also going synthetic (dot 5) fluid. Synthetic fluid will not absorb the water that causes the rust and it won't need flushed annually. There are also actuators available made of carbon which obviously won't rust.

I now have three times the length of service of the stock settup and the fluid remains clear.

The half full resevoir means that fluid leaked out... rust has damaged the cups in either the actuator or wheel cylinders or both... your correct in that a brake job is in your future.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 04/06/2005 22:00:26

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2005 : 19:08:52

The master cylinder was to far gone. Found a replacement at a local trailer supply store for $61. Spent the day installing and bleeding the brakes. Replaced a brake light bulb and cleaned the grease of the rims, topped off the buddy bearing with grease and installed new Bra's on my buddy bearings to keep the grease off the rims. I can now check trailer maintenance off the check list.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 04/09/2005 19:38:43

s3tbuell
1st Mate

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47 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2005 : 00:27:14

Arlyn
I think you are wrong about the DOT5....you are correct DOT5 does not absorb water. Its made of silicone. Mostly used in race applications. It has a much higher cost then DOT3. The plus side it does not corrode metal, eat paint and clothing ect. Also if you should get a leak its not a hard or toxic clean up. The down side is because it does not absorb water it must be replace annually. The reason is the water is not suspended in the fluid, like in DOT3. So the water comes in direct contact with the metal parts and causes pits, which in a short time will cause brake failure.
As for the low level of fluid in the reservoir, if the brake shoes wear the wheel cylinder pushes the shoe out further and then has more fluid in it. So if you are going to adjust your brakes or ad new shoes make sure and do that before adding fluid or you will have a big mess. I have a 1995 wb and the original brakes. $10 is not much to spend each year for good long lasting brakes.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2005 : 10:18:37

Doyle,

Interesting thoughts on the Dot5 fluid...

It may be that the catch would be which is heavier, the brake fluid or the water. If the water, it will float to the top of the resevoir and pitting would be confined to the top of the resevoir, a harmless area. If the water is heavier...then your point might be valid. I'd like to know which is heavier.

I disagree with the inferrence that standard fluid which suspends the water doesn't allow the water to impact the castings and rust and pit them. Open brake systems long suffered contaminated fluid which was/is the blame for corrosion of those systems. Modern systems have a bladder cap to prevent air contamination and a transparent resevoir to check the fluid level without taking the top off. Moreover, a fuid that suspends the water, transfers the corrosion agent to all parts of the system so that the wheel cylinders are also affected where the corrosion eats the wheel cylinder cups causing leaking and sticking of the cylinders and dragging of the stuck brake and overheating of the axle.

Using Dot5 fluid, even if water were heavier, I doubt a few water drops would migrate to the wheel cylinders but would rather find some point at which to congregate and in my opinion this would be much better than corrosive water spread through the entire system. I certainly agree that any water offering corrosion, could attack critical parts of the system such as the bores of the actuator or wheel cylinders. Newer systems also have options of carbon composite actuator cylinders and aluminum wheel cylinders to resist the effects of corrosion.

What is known is that my '96 trailer (built in '95 and delivered in Jan of '96) had brake failure due to corrosion after just two years and it had seen no salt water. It now has seven years on the rebuild which used Dot5 fluid and an actuator cylinder using a bladder cap which has seen salt water on a couple of occasions. An annual check of the fluid level shows no drop in level and a clear color meaning there is no rust suspended in the fluid. As you point out, there could be pitting, but if so, it has not caused any loss of fluid or affected operation.

In my opinion, the issue more important than which fluid, is the bladder cap making the brakes a closed system so that it does not draw moisture from the air. A brake system will experience a daily cycle of breathing air as components heat and cool and the bladder cap is necessary to prevent the fresh air from contaminating the fluid. Submerging the actuator on a boat trailer makes the bladder cap even more of a neccessity.

All this said, your ten year old system that still works tends to defy my argument, but I'd suggest that your system's longevity is unusual comparing it to the many reports of brake failures reported to the forum over the years. It might however be explained by the comparison between Texas and the Pacific N/W. There, a battery unless overcharged suffers very little in the way of water loss while in Texas, a battery can litterally seem to drink water. The likely reason is the day time temperatures in the battery compartment. In Texas, a group 24 battery in the aft compartment on a boat that sits on its trailer, will require water servicing twice a year. Six volt golf cart batteries however have a huge deep water resevoir and prove a better choice. Closed batteries would likely be even better.

Where are you at? Is your trailer in a dry climate or one with less day time temperatures? I'm quite interested in knowing why your system has survived ten years when many others fail so quickly.

As to the price of the Dot5 fluid, it is 4X that of standard but annualizing it has cost less than $1 dollar per year and shares credit with the bladder cap for saving two brake jobs worth $300 for parts plus labor. I think I'm money ahead. Of the two items, I give the bladder cap the most credit but I'm not discounting that value of the synthetic fluid.

Edited by - on

Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2005 : 14:17:58

and let's not forget glycol based DOT 5.1...!

A Google search on brake fluid will yield more than you ever wanted to know on Dot 3/4/5.1 vs. 5.0....

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2005 : 15:52:49

Arlyn, Where did you pick up your bladder cap?

Edited by - on

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