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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

all rope vs. wire/rope ?

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Megsskipper
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/25/2005 : 15:34:16

Inevitably, the time has come for new halyards. Meg currently has wire/rope halyards. Any feedback from The Guru on the pros and cons of all rope vs. wire/rope combination halyards? Should it be a factor, I drool every time I see them run internally and i have every intention of making that mod in the very near future...thanks in advance!

Michael & Alison
'79 Catalina 25 FK/SR # 1203

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2005 : 16:45:41

I absolutely believe that the wire to rope halyard is a dangerous set-up for a short handed sailor. I had mine foul in the stays too many times while trying to get sails down in high winds. I use 1/4" halyard but if I were going internal I would use at least 5/16 maybe larger. I have not gone internal yet but when I do I will not use exit blocks, I will use slots, higher up than exit blocks, allowing the halyards to go to my blocks on my halyard plate.
Look around my web pages from my signature and study my rigging. I think my boat is very typical, nothing whiz bang just good hardware doing what it should.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2005 : 17:15:55

I got 3/16 kevlar rope centerspliced to a 5/16 tail. The kevlar is high tech stuff - can lift 5000 lbs. The 5/16 is your normal halyard. It cost $300 for both halyards. The center splice has 9 feet of overlap. West Marine beat Layline's price.

This is stronger than your rope/wire package and much lighter and easier on the hands.

I stayed with my external halyards.

Later I replaced sheaves and went with CD 3/16 plastic sheaves (not the stainless ball bearing roller sheaves).

Its a good solution but only expect it to last 2 or 3 years of very heavy use - the kevlar rope does not have much abrasion or UV resistance.

I bought everything about 5 feet longer than needed and have had to cut a foot off the end of the kevlar a couple of times.

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Megsskipper
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2005 : 17:54:12

Frank, my wire halyard has fouled a couple of times as well...good point...forgot about that...thanks! Checked out the pics as well. You've been a busy man to say the least! Beautiful boat! I particularly like the reef setup. Disassembled mine before the last hurricane (Isabel?) and haven't totally convinced myself i put it back correctly yet. I'm very envious of those who can plop the boat in front of the workshop...gotta get me a trailer...

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Megsskipper
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2005 : 18:14:08

Jim,

If I go all rope, I believe you folks have alluded to having to replace the masthead sheaves anyway but why the plastic over the stainless steel? You stayed external. Any particular reason? Are there drawbacks I cannot forsee? That is certainly a modification I had better LOVE after doing it!

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2005 : 12:00:15

I stayed external because the internal kit cost a lot of $ and I'm happy with my current lines-led-aft setup.

I bought the plastic sheaves because the stainless steel roller bearing ones cost a lot of $

Although $300 for 2 ropes seems high, it was the cheapest way to get out of wire halyards (which I hate).

Very happy with ALL 10 lines led aft

outhaul
2 reefing lines for flattening, first and 2nd reefs
spinnaker halyard
spinnaker pole lift
spinnaker pole downhaul
main halyard
jib halyard
roller drum line
vang

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2005 : 15:00:58

Jim, there are cheaper ways to get out of wire halyards, you picked the most expensive way, my technora halyards have a braking streength of 4800 punds which is greate4r thabn the wire they replaced and yet they cost approximately $70. each, cheaper line than mine would do the job as well.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2005 : 15:44:12

I got rid of the wire halyards and put on some 5/16" Sta-Set X remnants I picked up on clearance.

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Megsskipper
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2005 : 16:33:41

Don, your thoughts on the good, the bad and the ugly of internal vs. external? Think it to be worth the trouble?

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2005 : 18:33:14

Frank, did you go to 5/16 sheaves and all 5/16 dacron lines?

Keep in mind I have that old roller furling and need to get the jib halyard really, really tight with no stretch if I want to point without jib sag. The halyard rings like middle C on a piano when I'm done winching it up tight (it still sags - I drop it and use my laminate racing sails on the standard forestay anytime I want to race for real).

For the main I've never needed that nearly that much tension.

I'd switch to the cheapest 3/16 solution you could find or even consider going with new sheaves and all 5/16 line.

The CD kit for that is $560! How is that cheaper than $300?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2005 : 19:44:09

I bought
Belpat sheaves; price negligible.
Ultra tech 1/4" from Layline $1.00/ft

What more is there? You did the high tech thing with splicing.

Edited by - on

Kip C
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2005 : 21:15:27

Micheal & Alison,

FYI, I have new halyards coming from http://www.newjsi.com/. They are getting rid of the New England Ropes products and have it marked at about 50% of what west marine gets(At least that is what the t900 is priced at). Also,I recently received a mailer from west marine that some of their cordage is 20-40% off. This doesn't exactly answer your question, but may help you decide what to get.

Edited by - Kip C on 04/26/2005 21:18:33

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2005 : 09:28:18

[url="http://www.sailnet.com/store/item.cfm?pid=19737"]SailNet has Sta-Set X[/url] for .53/ft (Layline = .87)

I think I bought 150' of line to replace my two halyards which at today's SailNet price would cost $79.50.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2005 : 14:00:14

I went with 65' pre-made halyards from Sailnet. They have the eyes spliced, tails whipped and include nice quality shackles. (assuming they are still offered, as I recall, the last time I looked the price had gone up a bit).

For my standard rig, 65' was exactly the right length. (with halyards led aft to a dual clutch and cabintop winch).

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2005 : 14:49:31

I agree that 65' is the number for a std rig. I bought 70 and have tails that are too long. But who can cut line? It seems a sacrilege.

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Megsskipper
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2005 : 22:50:07

Much obliged guys...$$$'s add up...thanks for the advice and the shopping options...appreciate it!

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2005 : 16:16:23

Take a look at Laylines bargain section, many times you'll find the end of a line that just won't cut it for the big boys that they move to the discount area.

Also, I think ours are about 75 to 80. Our Jib halyard is a used kevlar line section from a 33 foot racing boat. Because of wear and tear, you'l want to swap them out end for end every season or every other season.

This will keep the cleats and blocks from always having the load on the line in the same spots.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2005 : 15:19:51

I've actually used Sta Set for halyards. Found them to stretch a bit, but with a cunningham, it's OK.

In retrospect, I would use Sta Set X for halyards in the future.

Any other manufacturers would have similar lines with comparative stretch.

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