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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

What boat buying process to follow?

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Scooter
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/03/2005 : 23:01:03

Just a quick question about the exchange process during the act of buying a boat.

Question: If you travel to see a boat, like it, and want to put money down to hold it, How do you make sure the person follows up on the sale? What if they are simply renting a slip and passing through (collecting desposits) then moving on? What have others done to cover their butt (er.. I mean boat)

Question: What have you done to verify the boat isn't stolen etc... I would probably call the boat registration of the state?? That's what I did in my state.

Just questions about what other have done right and wrong out there. I was asked and had to think about the answer.

Please don't bother commenting on those annoying requests for checks and information etc... from overseas that can't build a complete sentence. Those scams are well known (or we hope they're well known.)

Scooter
C25 '89 SR/WK #5878 "Square Knot"
Vandemere NC.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2005 : 08:39:33

In Kansas you can call fish and game to see who the state bow numbers are assigned to. It is quick and easy. Once you are sure he owns it and that he is a local you can print out a sales contract from an online source or software and make it stipulate what you want. If it is a deposit and balance at closing then that is what you put. Then if he bails you have recourse. However, if he returns your deposit, then your damage is negligible unless his boat is very unique.

As for scams, we ain't got non of those here in the country.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2005 : 08:58:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Question: If you travel to see a boat, like it, and want to put money down to hold it, How do you make sure the person follows up on the sale?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Let me lay out three alternatives.

I just bought a boat last week, and will pass along some of what I learned. If the boat is listed with a broker, by all means, ask a different broker to represent you in the negotiations. It doesn't cost you anything. The seller pays the brokers' fee, and your broker will share that fee. If a broker is involved in the transaction, he will probably use a standard form yacht purchase and sale agreement such as the one recommended by the Yacht Brokers' Association of America. I learned, to my surprise, that the form provides that, after the contract is signed by a buyer and the seller, another buyer can make a subsequent offer for more money, and the seller is not obligated to sell to the first buyer. If he sells to the subsequent buyer, however, he must refund the first buyer's deposit and reimburse him for any out-of-pocket expenses he has incurred, such as the cost of hiring a surveyor.

In a transaction of that type, the buyer should require that the deal be closed in a reasonably short period of time, probably not less than two weeks or more than 30 days. The seller will probably prefer a longer period of time, in the hope that a buyer will come through with a higher offer in the meanwhile.

Don't completely believe anything you are told by anyone involved in the transaction - not the seller, or the seller's broker, or your own broker, or even your surveyor. They all have a direct or indirect economic interest in the deal being consummated, and they will all gild the lily. For example, although it is generally in good condition, my boat has a couple of windows that are cracked and should be replaced. My broker told me they could be replaced much less expensively than I found to be true. Don't take their word for things like that. Get your own repair estimates from local marinas. My surveyor told me the 22 year old sails were in "average" condition. Any sailor will agree that 22 year old sails are not good for racing and they won't withstand the stress of extended cruising. Therefore, they are only good for daysailing around the bay, and are near the end of their useful life for any purpose. I adjusted my offer to allow me to replace the windows and sails and make other repairs, and the seller accepted it. My broker and surveyor were very helpful. They pointed out things I didn't notice. But, educate yourself on how to self-survey a boat, and ultimately rely on your own judgment. As Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."

I'm embarrassed to admit that I made a huge mistake, but don't think it'll hurt me. I failed to ask my broker about the existence of any liens on the boat before my purchase money was paid to the seller. The contract required that the title be transferred to me free and clear of all liens, and I trusted (gulp!) that my broker would take care of that as a matter of course, and he probably did, but I should have discussed that with my broker specifically. During the negotiations, I met the seller and also met people who have done business with him for years, and don't seriously doubt that my concerns will be allayed in about a week, when I receive the clear title in the mail. If it doesn't work out that way, we'll have a heck-of-a-lawsuit!

A second alternative is to have an attorney draft a purchase agreement and follow his advice. He can write it so that it precludes the possibility of a subsequent buyer outbidding you.

When dealing directly with the seller, you need to know he is in fact the owner of the boat. You should ask to see his certificate of title, showing the title to be in his name. If there are any liens against the boat, they should be listed on the certificate of title, and part of the purchase money should be distributed directly to the lienholder, to pay off the lien, and the rest should be distributed to the seller. Also, ask to see his driver's license and write down his descriptive info and driver's license number. Look at him to see if the description and photo resemble him. Ask him to provide you his auto license plate number, his permament residence address and phone number, his full name and date of birth, and his spouse's full name and date of birth. If the seller is a "rolling stone," or if he lies to you in any respect, however innocuous it may seem, I would not deal with him, because all you really know about him is that he lied to you. Remember, all it really takes to bind the parties to a contract is one dollar, so, if you can negotiate for a small deposit, you won't stand to lose much if he bails out on you.

If the price of the boat doesn't justify the cost of hiring an attorney, then Frank's suggestions are good ones.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2005 : 14:54:57

Steve:

Your post begs the question: What did you buy? Maybe you posted the information somewhere else and I just missed it.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2005 : 16:11:47

I bought a C&C 35. It looks like a big, overgrown Catalina 25, so I'll feel right at home. I plan to keep it on the Chesapeake this season while I do some refitting, and then decide whether to move it next year. The only time I have sailed it so far was during the sea trial, and I'm going to like it a lot. I spent a few days on it last week cleaning the interior and learning as much as possible about its systems, but came home when the area started setting records for cold nights, and my old dog started to shiver. I had a sleeping bag, but she just had her fur.

Because I'll be singlehanding it most of the time, I've spent some time studying my slip to figure out how to get it in and out by myself without damaging anything or looking like a chinese fire drill. I've figured out how to get it in, but am still working on a plan to get it out. It'll be no problem in calm conditions, but when the wind is blowing hard across the beam or from astern, I can't be tying or untying docklines at all four corners of the boat at the same time, so I need a plan. When entering the slip, the first line I'll attach will be a spring line from the aft piling on the port side to a cleat on the port genoa track. Then I'll put the engine in forward gear at idle and lock the helm over to starboard, and the engine will hold the boat in position while I go around attaching the other docklines. When leaving the slip, I might use the same method in reverse, but I'm not sure that's the best way to do it.

It has been 7-8 years since I operated a diesel inboard, and I'm very apprehensive about doing it again for the first time, but I'm just going to have to screw up my courage and do it. I know it'll come back with practice.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2005 : 13:41:23

Steve

Congratulations. We moved from our 12 years on our C25 to a C34 seven years ago. Your idea about using a spring line is perfect. You CAN use it when leaving the slip, too. Just remember, there's no movable outboard on your new inboard diesel, so the trick is to make sure you give it enough throttle when first backing out to get the water moving over the rudder. I had a dock mate recently come up to me and say, "Hey, I just noticed that you do something almost no one else does, and congratulations." i said, "What's that?" He replied, "I live aboard and I know every time you go out, because you're the only guy who gooses the throttle enough to avoid banging into the dock. All I get from other boaters, including the guy behind me, is to too slowly back out and then they wonder why their boat is so unresponsive." I thanked him, and keep up the throttle when backing out. Of course, you'll try all this out in calm and open water to get the feel for your prop walk and use it to your advantage.

Fair winds,

Stu

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2005 : 14:29:59

Thanks for the great tip, Stu. That's one of the things that was bothering me the most - how to get it moving enough to have control, without bouncing off the pilings. It makes sense to goose the throttle and get the boat moving quickly.

I'm thinking that, when backing out, the spring line should be on the side of the boat that the stern moves away from, so that, when you goose it in reverse, the prop walk pulls the boat away from the piling that the spring line is attached to, rather than towards it as you back out. Does that make sense?

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2005 : 18:37:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 I bought a C&C 35. It looks like a big, overgrown Catalina 25,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Several people I know seem to be buying new boats this spring, or at least "shopping around". One of the people in my club bought a C&C 32 last year, that he keeps on San Francisco Bay. I haven't seen it in person yet, but he says he is really enjoying it. Congratulations on your C&C 35! May she bring you safely home from every new advanture.

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