Association Forum - Main Halyard Tension

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Main Halyard Tension - How tight is tight

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/12/2005 : 18:09:51

How tight is tight? Do you just pull it up by hand and be done with it? or Use the winch to really pull it tight. How about "Jumping the Main" what do the most of you do?

1997 250 TR WK (sold)
1984 O'Day 28 (sold)
1979 SISU 22
Bath, NC.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2005 : 19:07:39

It depends on the windstrength. Generally, you put more tension on the luff of both the mainsail and jib in stronger winds, and slacken the tension in lighter air. Increasing the luff tension flattens the sail and moves the draft forward, which helps the boat point to windward and stay on her feet in strong winds. Easing the tension makes the pocket deeper, and maximizes the sail's power, and that helps keep the boat moving in light air and off the wind.

In normal winds, the luff should not be so tight that the tension pulls long curling wrinkles parallel to the luff of the sail. When you're beating to windward in stronger winds, it's ok to put that much tension on the luff, as long as the curls smooth out when you sheet in the sail to its proper trim. When you bear off downwind, you should ease the tension on the luff, so that the luff is smooth and the shape of the sail is full.

There's no set formula. You learn from experience how to approximately set the tension for the wind conditions, and what the shape of the sail should look like, and then, when you're out sailing, you increase or reduce the tension to see whether it helps or hurts the boat's performance.

I always put three wraps of the jib halyard around the jib halyard winch, even though I don't need all that mechanical advantage in winds of normal strength. Usually I can put enough tension on the jib halyard by hand (by "sweating the halyard"), even in fairly strong winds. Only very rarely, in exceptionally strong winds and when I'm trying to carry the maximum possible sail area, do I need to use the winch handle on the jib winch to apply enougn tension to the jib luff.

In really strong winds, I can put as much tension as necessary on the luff of the mainsail by sitting on the boom, near the gooseneck, and then cleating the downhaul.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2005 : 19:35:30

Steve,
looking at the mainsail in the picture below, is this what you would call "curling wrinkles"? caused by being to tight or is this a result of the luff being to loose?

tom

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2005 : 20:45:05

Looks like a loose luff coupled with a lot of mast bend?..

Also seems like the boom has been raised to clear the bimini?
the boom angle looks a little odd.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2005 : 20:55:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">looking at the mainsail in the picture below, is this what you would call "curling wrinkles"? caused by being to tight or is this a result of the luff being to loose? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> The wrinkles in the photo run diagonally, from about halfway up the mast to the clew. The wrinkles I was referring to run parallel to the luff of the mainsail, from the tack to the headboard. If you look at the photo, the upper part of the sail is fairly smooth. The wrinkles are only in a lower, triangular-shaped part of the sail. It looks to me as if either the sail hasn't been fully raised to the top of the mast, or more tension needs to be applied to either the downhaul or to the cunningham (depending on whether the boat is rigged with a fixed or movable gooseneck). It may be that there's also too much tension on either the boom vang or the mainsheet. Pulling the aft end of the boom down too tight with either the mainsheet or the boom vang appears to be the main cause of those diagonal wrinkles.

Look at the photo, and imagine that the sail is a giant letter "A". It looks like the leech of the sail (the left leg) has too much tension, and the luff (the right leg) doesn't have enough tension. As a result, the upper/aft part of the sail is taut and smooth, but the lower/forward part of the sail is loose and wrinkeled. If you take a little tension off of the left leg and apply a little more tension to the right leg, the sail should smooth out.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2005 : 21:34:12

Bruce,
I do have the flatting reef in to clear the bimini, (man your eye's are good)

as for the mast bend, it must be the picture, I've tried to get bend in the mast like the manual says, but like most 250's owners I just can't get what the book calls for.

Steve,
After reading yours and Bruce's posts I think my problem is, I don't have the right tension on the luff. Evidently I'm not getting it tight enough.

In this picture it looks like I have a couple more inches I could have raised the main. Should I use the winch to get it the extra few inches?

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2005 : 23:41:57

Rise the main sail by hand first, rap it around the winch three times and put it up yousing your weight, Look at the head of the sail and the band on the mast. When and if the wind picks up 8-12 Get out your handle and make the halyard tighter, dont put too much stress on the halyard. If you still have wrinkles in the sail use a cunningham and pull it out from the clew, also tighten your outhaul and flatening reef.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 06:01:08

Tom,
where were those pics taken, sure looks a nice sailing day!

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 07:36:27

You should raise the sails while pointing into the wind with no tension on any other lines. That way there on not too much strain on the halyard. The main should not be so high that the headboard snags on the backstay. The downhauls, cunningham and outhaul are used to get the proper shapes in the sails when underway, as mentioned above. I sometimes ease the halyard in light air, using the winch for slacking control. Other than reversing the proceedure when rounding a leward mark, that is about the only time I adjust with the halyard.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 07:53:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">In this picture it looks like I have a couple more inches I could have raised the main. Should I use the winch to get it the extra few inches?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Before you use the winch, always try to figure out why the sail hasn't gone up all the way. It might be that a sail slug is slightly twisted in the sail track. If you use too much force you could damage it. When you raise the sail while heading directly to windward, it ordinarily doesn't take much force to raise it. If it doesn't go up fairly easily, then something is probably binding or snagged, and it will go up the rest of the way if you free it up.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 06/13/2005 07:54:43

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 08:33:10

Thanks all, for your tips.
Paul, those pictures were taken in Santa Rosa sound near Pensacola a few weeks ago while on the BEER cruise.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 09:34:12

Tom, I have the same problem with my mainsail. My main haylard, which under normal conditions never gets put on a winch for tension, runs through a clutch. During testing I tighted it with the winch, but the haylard pulled back through the clutch about two inches when released it. I took out the lower batton and this seemed to help some, but did not remove it completely. The one thing I have not tried is a downhaul. I will need to spend some boat units to add one I guess. I tried easing the mainsheet and vang, but neither helped a great deal either. I have been wondering if the sail was just not cut properly? I have no way to find out so I will just keep playing with it and try to get it flat. If I find the answer I will let all know.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 09:54:11

"... but the haylard pulled back through the clutch about two inches when released it. "

This shouldn't happen. Wrong size line for the clutch, bad clutch, clutch mounted backwards?
I'd remedy this situation before spending boat units on other hardware.

If the halyard is too small for the clutch you can have a larger diameter 'tail' spliced onto the end as needed.

Lying on the deck with your head at the foot of the mast can be very enlightening sometimes.(looking up of course)

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1009 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 12:22:37

Tom,
I have a 25 with a fixed gooseneck. It takes a fair ammount of pressure on the winch to get the shape right. I don't know if it is the way the sail is cut or if it is a tuning issue. It seems like an abnormal force to me, but that is what the sail takes.

I tension the halyard and then put in the outhaul I need.

Tom.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 16:09:48

Bruce, the line clutches are Spinlock power clutches part number XAS408/3 for line sizes 5/32 - 5/16. According to Catalina my halyards are 5/16. There was a thread, just after I got my boat, in which association members complained about the clutches installed by Catalina on the C250's for this very reason. Catalina supplies two, one for each haylard. I have remove these and installed two triples of the same size in their place.
Did the mast bit, but did not see any wrinkles.

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2005 : 16:42:11

So if you have a fixed gooseneck does that mean you have no downhaul? If not, can you rig a cunningham?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2005 : 18:04:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So if you have a fixed gooseneck does that mean you have no downhaul? If not, can you rig a cunningham?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> The C25 gooseneck can be rigged so that it is either fixed or loose by putting a stopper in the track above and below it. If it's rigged so that it's fixed, then you won't have a downhaul. In that case, you can use the main halyard to tension the luff of the mainsail. Cunninghams were optional on a new C25. If your boat doesn't have one, they aren't difficult or expensive to rig. If you rig a cunningham, I suggest you give it a little mechanical advantage, to make it easier to adjust the luff tension. If it's easy to use, you'll use it more frequently, and, if you really want the boat to perform well, you should adjust it almost anytime you go from a beat to a reach to a run.

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2005 : 07:28:58

I can see using a track plug to limit lowering the boom to clear a bimini. Any other reasons to prefer that over the advantages of a downhaul?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2005 : 10:09:28

My preference is that the gooseneck not be fixed. That way, I can raise the mainsail to the top of the mast, and then use the downhaul to set the mainsail luff tension for light air and downwind sailing, and use the cunningham to increase the tension when I turn and sail to windward.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2005 : 08:40:20

Tom, I found my sail problem. Someone mentioned that your mast look like it had a lot of bend this made me thing about how much I had and what it did to the sail. First a little back ground. When I haul for bottom work this year I took a level and had them set the boat perfectly level on the stands. Then I loosen everything and following Catalina's directions and doing everything the way they say how to do it. The one thing I could not remember was if I had the problem before I readjusted all by the book. So yesterday before the beer can race I went out and checked my back stay tension. Much to my surprise it was 12 lbs. higher than Catalina recommends. I then check the prebend again and it look a little much. So I back of the backstay tension to the recommend value(32), put the lower battan back in and waited for race time. Well, you guessed it, raise the main first reefed since the winds were 16 - G23 and sailed the first leg. No rinkles in the main she shaped up perfect. With the reef in, I thought possibly that gave the luff tension needed. On the second leg winds now down to 8 - G12-15 and contiuning to decrease as the Sun got lower, I decided to pull out the reef and see if it made any changes. Again no rinkles and a perfectly shaped main. Apparently during my dry tuning I induce way to much prebend which caused me to lose the capability of tensioning the leach properly and thus the rinkles. I still have a little prebend, but not nearly as much as before and very happy with my luck in fixing the problem.
Tom, I would recommed you check your backstay tension and if higher than 32 set it to that figure, check to make sure no reverse bend and then go sailing. I think you will be surprise the mainsail shape and preformance. Good luck and hope this fixes your problem also.

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2005 : 17:06:59

Wow!! Lots of good hints exchanged here.

A couple of "easy to miss" things that have caused me difficulties getting a full hoist on the main:
1. Before hoisting ease the vang a bit-it pulls down on the boom & artificially extends the leech length. You can snug it up afterwards.
2. Make sure the jiffy-reef line(s) are slack before hoisting. If not they act like a cunningham & deccrease the length of the luff.
3. After you are all done hoisting the main make sure the topping lift is slightly slack. Otherwise this alters the relative angle of the boom & mast causing a droopy leech.

Nobody likes a droopy leech, although SAIL-alis helps during weekend cruises.

Edited by - Jeff McK on 06/23/2005 17:17:09

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.