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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Cabin top camcleats not holding

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Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/02/2005 : 23:02:20

I purchased a 2003 c250 several months ago and have noticed that the cabin top halyard cam cleats are not holding very well. After tightening they release about 2 inches and then grab. I cannot get the mainsail all the way up.

Could there be a problem with the cleats or did Catalina undersize the halyards. They look small for the size hole in the cleat.

Turk

Turk

www.turk.mysailboatblog.com
2003 C250 WK #663
Northeast Ohio
Mosquito Lake/Lake Erie

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2005 : 20:42:01

Turk, I assume you are talking about the halyard Spinlock clutches, mine do exactly the same thing if I crank on it using the winch. I have watch the head of the sail and had my son do the cranking and releasing. The head did not move when he released the halyard from the winch and it pulled back about two inches. The only thing I can attribute it too is the stretch of the haylard. Mine seems to have more stretch than I think it should, but I do not know for sure. Take a look at the head of the sail when you hoist it using the winch an see if it is all the way to the top. I think you will find it is not, because the luff of the main is cut a little short.

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Turk
Admiral

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736 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2005 : 03:32:20

When mine releases the two inches, it definitely drops the sail. Same thing happens with the furler. I had to cleat the jib halyard to the mast to keep the furler all the way up the front stay. After further messing with it today, it looks as if the halyard that Catalina is using is soft. It does stretch too much, but it also has an area or range that is in the cleat when the main is up, that has a collapsed inner core that further flattens in the cleat and slips. Added to the fact that it is the minimum size rope for the cleat - it slips. I think I'm gonna have to attribute it to lower quality undersized rope.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frog0911
 I watch the head of the sail and had my son do the cranking and releasing. The head did not move when he released the halyard from the winch and it pulled back about two inches. The only thing I can attribute it too is the stretch of the haylard. Mine seems to have more stretch than I think it should, but I do not know for sure. Take a look at the head of the sail when you hoist it using the winch an see if it is all the way to the top. I think you will find it is not, because the luff of the main is cut a little short.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2005 : 09:05:56

Tom, the Spinlock clutches Catalina installs are designed for 1/4 - 1/2 inch lines. If your haylards are the minimum for the clutches, either someone replaced the orginials or Catalina messed up. The haylards provided by Catalina are suppose to be 5/16", but I diffently agree they are soft and have way to much stretch. What year is your boat? Are the haylards orginial? I ask these questions, just to get an idea of when I can expect to have the same problem and need to replace the haylards. Replacement of the haylards if they are flat looks like your only option. I don't know if the mast sheeves can handle half inch lines, but maybe someone else does. If they can that would be my choice of diameter. Two reasons for 1/2 inch are easier on the hands and maximum holding capability of the clutches. I would consider low stretch as a requirement also.

Edited by - frog0911 on 07/04/2005 09:10:03

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2005 : 11:49:31

This topic has come up before and I think the general consensus was that the main halyard is to small (not for the load). Several people have switched their main hayyard out to the next size up (Oscar may have been one). I asked Catalina about it and they said the clutch should hold and sent me a new one, as my main halyard slips also. Still slips - sail drops. I have a sliding cleat that I tie the halyard off on until I replace the line. Turk you have some interesting observations. I thought that the dealer I bought our boat off of supplied and cut all the running rigging themselves instead of comming from Catalina.

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 07/05/2005 11:50:10

pbaxter
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2005 : 16:50:27

Turk -

I use 10mm line in my Spinlocks and they don't move when I drop the clutch on them.

pcb

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2005 : 19:18:47

My boat was delivered to my local marina. I then had to remove the haylards and rigging from inside the boat and send them to the dealer along with the mast. He rigged the mast at his place then came to the house and we raise the mast. The sheets, vang and sails I kept since they all had to be put together. Everything required to sail the boat was supplied by Catalina.
How close is 10mm to 1/2" line? Still looking for the answer to the sheeve question. Will they accept 1/2" line without cutting them?

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3321 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2005 : 19:35:17

"How close is 10mm to 1/2" line?"
Jerry - according to my calculations 10mm is equal to .03937"
(almost 4/100ths). Not good to hold in your clutches - but in something like Vectran it's wonderful for low stretch and strength! ("TSU's" halyards are 12mm with a breaking strain of 4600 lbs!)
Derek

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2005 : 19:56:33

Derek, that is just .08 larger than 5/16. Not a lot, but could be just enough for the clutches. The 12 mm sounds better(.047+), but if it won't work in the sheeves properly then other problems arise. Maybe one of the trailer persons could measure the sheeves the next time they drop their mast and let us know.

THOUGHT YOU WERE ON THE ROAD TO WICHITA OR ARE YOU ALREADY THERE?

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Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2005 : 22:01:36

My halyards are 5/16 and are original for the boat (2003). I am going to call Catalina and ask them about the problem (nicely) and see what they say! If I have to change the halyards out to larger ones (probably 3/8") what is the easiest way to do this? Butt the ends together and duct tape and stich maybe???

Turk

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frog0911
 Tom, the Spinlock clutches Catalina installs are designed for 1/4 - 1/2 inch lines. If your haylards are the minimum for the clutches, either someone replaced the orginials or Catalina messed up. The haylards provided by Catalina are suppose to be 5/16", but I diffently agree they are soft and have way to much stretch. What year is your boat? Are the haylards orginial? I ask these questions, just to get an idea of when I can expect to have the same problem and need to replace the haylards. Replacement of the haylards if they are flat looks like your only option. I don't know if the mast sheeves can handle half inch lines, but maybe someone else does. If they can that would be my choice of diameter. Two reasons for 1/2 inch are easier on the hands and maximum holding capability of the clutches. I would consider low stretch as a requirement also.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2005 : 22:22:36

"THOUGHT YOU WERE ON THE ROAD TO WICHITA OR ARE YOU ALREADY THERE?"

Leaving early tomorrow morning Jerry. I'll give Frank your regards!
Derek

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2005 : 07:09:13

If I recall correctly the limiting factor is the mast exits... When I replaced, I think I tried 3/8 and found it a bit large for the exits... so stayed with 5/16 and found that a better quality line solved cleating problems.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2005 : 19:14:24

I just finished talking to Catalina about the Spinlocks and the slippage and they basically said to replace the halyards with something of very low stretch. They said not to go larger as other components will not fit the larger rope.

I ask if they had used inexpensive rope on the halyards and they said no. They did recommend spending more money for a better grade - figures. They said stich the old and new halyard end to end and pull through the mast.

Would New england's Endura braid be a good choice? I've used it before on another boat for the sheets and it is a low strech "round" rope that would probably do well in the spinlock. Also it is a harder finish (fine for my gloved hands) that may hold up well being crimpt in the jaws alot.

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