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wing&wing, finally did it but why?

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ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/06/2005 : 13:08:23

Monday, sailing around the Neuse in ~1ft waves and ~8-10kt wind, we had an opportunity to sail home wing&wing (with no pole, mind you). After half an hour, here were my observations:
- the motion was very uncomfortable, the 1ft waves would set us into a nice rocking that flopped the headsail closed
- it took a lot of effort to keep the headsail flying and the main not gybing, it was not exactly the relaxed downwind run I was expecting
- we were going slow.

when we gybed the headsail and headed up enough to fill it behind the main (30-40deg), the boat:
- stopped rocking so much
- speeded up 1.5 - 2 times. crude math says that is still better VMG (15%-70% more).

Now allowing for this being first try and no pole, I still feel I'd rather gybe back-n-forth than run dead downwind. am I missing something?

Nadi ex-C25
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/enka
http://building-spindrift11s.blogspot.com/

Edited by - on

TRogers
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2005 : 14:39:24

Your experience matches my knowledge/experience.

Dead downwind is a slow point of sail. Bearing off a bit and gybing not only increases your speed but reduces the possibility of an accidental gybe.

Off course wing on wing does look kind of pretty.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2005 : 14:41:20

OK, I did feel "kool"

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TRogers
 Off course wing on wing does look kind of pretty.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2005 : 14:58:27

I agree, the wing on wing is a thing of beauty but does require your constant attention. Throw in a shifting wind and a little wake from the passing gas guzzlers and things easily go to heck. The pole would make an easier time of it and help extend the life of your headsail.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2005 : 15:27:25

If you prevent the main, pole out the jib, and set the autopilot it is a point of sail that does not require much attention. Slow but it will get you there.

Gybing downwind is faster and smoother. I gave up wing and wing, gave away my whisker pole and now I set the spinnaker. 8 - 10 knots, perfect. I would have been seeing 6+ knots. Flying the "kite" keeps you busy, too!

If the wind had been 15+ knots wing and wing will get you moving real good.

Edited by - JimB517 on 07/06/2005 15:29:45

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2005 : 21:18:11

So-called "downwind tacking" is a tradeoff between speed gained and distance sailed. There are tables you can find to get the optimum speed/ distance calculation. As you point out, there are other considerations such as comfort and perceived enjoyment that also come into play. It is always wise to have a preventer on the main and a pole on the jib when wing and wing, for relaxation. Fair winds, ron srsk Orion SW FL

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ddlyle
Captain

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302 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2005 : 21:53:22

For me wing-on-wing is more of a fun thing as in a challenge, can I do it?
And it is pretty, as MUCH of sailing is pretty and artful.

But I agree on the motion and disturbing occasional accidental gybe.
My first (and last) mate really hates motion from following seas AND accidental gybes.
I snapped a photo while sailing w-w a few weeks ago. I need to remember my shuttfly sign on and post the photo here.

Edited by - on

andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2005 : 22:31:23

Here's my technique for wing&wing.
Don't sail directly downwind,give yourself at least 5 degrees off the wind (more is better, just keep the sail full), pole out the genoa to windward, put a preventer on the main. This works great in light air. The idea is to keep the genny full with the helm, and don't block it with the main. My old worn out 155 and the spinaker work great doing this. With the main prevented you don't have to worry about an untentional gybe if you hit a shifty puff. Again don't sail directly downwind unless you're really close to the mark and you have to.

Edited by - andy on 07/06/2005 22:37:23

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2005 : 17:22:46

The only time I ever sail dead downwind by choice is in the San Joaquin and Sacramento rivers. In the summer months, the afternoon westerly breeze usually blows straight up river, and since the channels are only about 150 yards wide, sailing a broad-reach to get more speed means frequent gybes, like every 4 or 5 minutes. In these circumstances, sailing straight down wind takes less effort, but I do use a whisker pole on the 135, and keep the boat on starboard tack as much as possible. On the river, if there is a temporary wind shift, it is usually from due west to south-west, so if I am on starboard tack, it "lifts" the boat and I don't have to gybe.

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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2005 : 11:00:20

I race my boat in Tuesday night "beercan" races on the Potomac, and we sail downwind "wing and wing" since we're not in the spinnaker class. We use a whisker pole and a "human preventer", who leans against the boom. My understanding is that sailing dead downwind on the rhumb line wing and wing is faster to the mark than sailing the angles with main and genoa. That is, the shorter distance overcomes faster boat speed.
Of course, you sail the angles with a spinnaker.

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2005 : 01:03:30

I find myself tacking up wind like crazy on my reservoir just so I can sail back down wing & wing. I don't have the foggiest about the efficiencies of tacking angles but I do know W & W looks pretty! Yeah, it makes you pay closer attention to wind shifts, and a preventer (human) is a good idea, but it's fun and a challenge.

I envy you skippers that can set any course for 1/2 hour. On inland reservoirs you have to tack and gybe constantly. Maybe it keeps my techniques fine tuned. And when I bought a whisker pole, my down wind cruising got easier.

I make special effort to go out and cruise around the nautical mahem that some call racing on Wednesday evenings. Watching them run down wind has been educational. I see those guys and gals screaming and cursing, dowsing and hoisting. Then I turn on the auto pilot, crank up the stereo and pour another margarita. Gosh, I love sailing!

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