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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

250 keel options

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Rob Greenberg
Deckhand

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1 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/02/2005 : 10:49:40

I am in the procees of purchasing the 250
I plan on sailing the shres of Cape Cod
There the winds typically kick up in the afternoon 15-25K
Can anyone share there experience in both keel options, I am leaning towards the water ballast but i fear it ma be to tender -

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 11:48:48

I think it would be a mistake not to look at the new Hunter 25,[url="http://www.huntermarine.com/models/25/index.html"]Hunter 25[/url] It looks like they have returned to traditional boat design and have a real winner on their hands. We all know the 250 wing has trim issues and WB's must not be all that great, Catalina has not set the world on fire with them and Hunter (the inventor) has abandoned them. Of course you could find a wing Catalina 25 and save yourself $25k

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 15:56:25

That design looks awfully familiar...

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 15:59:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 We all know the 250 wing has trim issues <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I would disagree. With the balanced rudder & taking care not to store too much heavy stuff aft we have no problems with trim. If I had a newer version with the water tank in the v-berth I wouldn't even need to 50 lbs of sand in the forepeak. Any light boat like the C250 has to be reefed earlier than a heavier boat & I think that is a huge part of the complaint about the C250's handling. You just can't have all the sails out when its blowing 15 knots.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 20:27:31

While being one of the worst racing skippers on the planet, I still think from the racing perspective. The idea of adding weight whether movable ballast or filling a water tank is anathema to we pretenders to the racing trophy. Cruisers are loath to drag a dingy because of the speed costs, racers are loath to leave any weight in the boat not required by class rules. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the 250 wing to the Hunter 240 WB but this new Hunter 25 is going to impact the market.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 22:04:09

I expect it too will have bugs that will have to be worked out over time, like the 250 rudder issues. Who's to say how it will sail and what trim issues it will have. Time will tell. However it looks good! (maybe cause it looks like a 250)

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Auburn80
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 22:20:45

I've tried to dig up information on the new H25 with very limited success. Feedback seems to be; very spartan interior, concerns that the shallow keel will limit upwind performance, swept spreaders open the cockpit nicely (no backstay) but requires one to tack downwind, the mainsheet is fixed (no traveler) and the exterior is styled very nicely (I think so too.) Also, FWIW, it has a "D" CE rating vs the C250's "C"; implying the C250 is built a bit more robust. I do hope someone can provide a real review soon.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 23:04:59

From the pic gallery, the new Hunter offering has some pros and cons. I like the port in the aft berth and the cabin table. I think I like some aspects of the rig, the use of diamond stays I think is a positive move. The jury is not in on the keel arangement, though it seems quite similar to the O'day 26 which is generally thought to be a reasonable good sailor. The 250 water ballast is faster than the O'Day 26 and the wing keel version is of course faster than the water ballast.

Towing... by the time one adds motor, and cruising gear, the boat will be at least 6500 lbs and will require a 3/4 ton pull compared to the 250 w/b which tows very well with a standard half ton truck.

I don't like the swim deck that seems to take up valuable length. This is very much like the C27 which didn't gain any real boat length because the additional two feet were consumed by a lazerate. Unless I'm mistaken, operating the outboard would be even more difficult than a transom hung swing mount. The deck seems to increase the difficulty of managing an outboard from the helm, a problem that was solved on the 250.

The swim ladder looks inadequate depth wise and there are no hand holds to ascend... this compared to a c250 which has the finest swim ladder I've ever used and is very easy to ascend with hand holds on both sides via the push pit railing and aft stanchion or stern seat frame.

The mid ship stanchion on the 250 though ugly as sin, more than makes up for its ugly by providing a steady and firm handhold for ascending/decending the cabin top. A lifeline/conventional stanchion is inadequate on boats with no side decks. Clearly Hunter chose looks rather than funtionality or safety here.

I've never sailed either Hunter the new model replaces but have sailed along with a 240 quite a bit and it doesn't compare performance wise with even the 250 wb but I've always felt that the 250 was more properly compared to the Hunter 260 than the 240.

Along with everyone else, I'm looking forward to some reviews of the Hunter. I do think it would be a mistake to consider it relative to racing. I don't think racing is even an issue with the Hunter design team. It is a low priority one with Catalina.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2005 : 23:08:10

That layout seems really really similar to our 2005 C250 WB!

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 00:03:44

My local dealer has not received one yet, but the swim deck makes up part of the 25 feet thus you lose 1 1/2 feet of cockpit space. Also the engine requires remote controls to operate and they of course are standard and included in the price. I have not seen a price sheet yet, but will when my local dealer gets one.

Edited by - on

Rockhound76
Deckhand

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1 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 09:44:39

Quick Note: I don't own a sailboat, but I've been researching trailerables, focusing on both new and lightly used boats.

Currently, it's down to four "new" boats: C250 (wing available locally w/ trailer. No luck, so far, finding WB in stock), Seaward 26RK (expensive-must be ordered from FL), H25 (I have the new price list, 24,995 intro w/ trailer. About 34,000 loaded up with the luxury/voyager sailaway packages. Dealer will have boat Sep. 1), and the Skimmer 25 (I love the looks. Interior is tight and minimalist. No lifelines. Dealer/builder in MS has demo boat for 45,000 fully equipped. I saw it. Beautiful boat.)

My concerns regarding the H25 focus on the keel. I contacted a local dealer when i saw the first profiles and photos of the new Hunter. IMO, the keel looked too low-aspect for the boat to be a good upwind sailer (lower ratio than even the Com-Pac). The dealer commented that I was mistaken and that there would be a centerboard. He said Hunter would produce the boats with a centerboard not seen in the drawing to help with upwind sailing and to protect the rudder. Obviously, that didn't happen.

Someone responding to my H25 inquiry on Hunterowners.com, indicated that Hunter did not pursue the original centerboard re-design due to expense. The new boats will not have a centerboard option.

The most affordable route for me is to go with the C250 WK, since several are available locally with trailers, both new and used. The prices look very reasonable. I don't consider this design very practical as a real trailerable, but I'd love any feedback from the list (towing is no prob. I have 12,000# tow capacity in my truck). I'm worried more about launching a WK from a ramp.

Any advice or comments would be appreciated.

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 12:15:23

The depicted enclosed head (plan above)I saw on the hunter 250 last spring @ the Chicago boat show was a plastic shower curtian. I guess I am biased but every hunter I have ever been in seemed cheaply made. Without getting into a long story my cousin has a 260 hunter that has basically been totaled by the insurance company for hull failure.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm worried more about launching a WK from a ramp.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am not sure about launching the wing as I have a waterballast but my trailer came with a tongue extension of around 10' which helps a lot. I only use it when I retrieve the boat and if I blew the water out I probably wouldn't need the extension even then.

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 08/03/2005 12:24:23

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 17:41:08

Hey Arlyn that table in the H25 looks awful familiar

Rob, I have a 250 Wing Keel. I keep it in the lake near by most all the time. I do however pull it out and trailer it to the coast for a little open water fun every once in a while. I added a 5th (launch) wheel to the front of the trailer and use a 20' strap to launch. There is plenty of discussion on that type of launch in the archives just use the search function.
Its a tough decision to make between the WB and WK. They both have there pluses and minuses. I've owned a swing keel boat before and when I got this boat I wanted the WK. I did not want the extra maintenance of the swing. One of the trade offs was the ease of launching. But once you've launched and retrieved the WK a few times you get use to it and its not to bad.

The support you get from of this forum alone is reason enough to buy a Catalina.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 08/03/2005 18:10:54

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2005 : 19:55:51

I can't imagine the Hunter going into production without a center board combined with the stub keel but what do I know.

Tom, the table I built was a mental copy from a table seen somewhere but I don't recall now where. The leaf hinged over the top designs are gaining popularity because they allow fiddles with the table closed and a flat top when opened.

The Seaward is a fine looking boat but what is it, double or more the cost of a 250?

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