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keats
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USA
215 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/07/2020 : 18:22:00

I've followed the threads on new outboards but was always happy not to need a new one.

That's changed.

Anyhoo, though I'd really like a Honda I think I need I'll probably go Mercury again to keep the cost down.

Minimum requirement is 9.9 HP / 25" Shaft / Electric Start / High-Thrust Prop

I know Tohatsu makes this and I would save on a Tohatsu but I like the grip shift on the Mercury.

So this is a Mercury 9.9EXLH

Checked OnlineOutboards and they have it for $2,795 + Tax That is free shipping (since I don't need a lift gate).

Defender is $2,805 + Tax but they will charge shipping. Also not in stock so that's out.

The big surprise is I happened to be in Bass Pro Shops and there were two brand new 25" Kickers with power tilt. Price is $2,927 + tax and I could just load one up.

I don't really need the power tilt and I could order the manual tilt from them for $2,627 + Tax.

Tempting to just get the power tilt as Bass Pro as it would be easier as I continue to age.

Unless anyone has any better ideas for a new motor.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

Edited by - keats on 01/07/2020 18:27:51

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2020 : 12:20:11

The one thing I'd consider carefully is the new Tohatsu 9.9 has EFI, which should eliminate the problems many folks have with the fine carburetor jets clogging in little 4-stroke outboards. It's the only outboard that size I know of with EFI--I may be out-of-date... It's also heavier than the previous (carb) model. Otherwise, I believe the little Mercs still have Tohatsu powerheads. And the throttle-shift is a nice idea--reminds me of the big 1960s Mercs that went into reverse, when you pulled the throttle back, by stopping the engine and (hopefully) re-starting it backwards! (You'd be advised not to count on that when approaching a dock!)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/08/2020 12:23:43

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2020 : 13:23:47

While some folks have problems with low idle caused by gummy carburetor jets, it�s not a universal problem and a good annual carburetor cleaning usually takes care of that. EFI is nice but the cost, weight and required maintenance for the injectors may not merit the choice.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2020 : 14:17:44

I run only ethanol free gas in my outboard, my snowblower, lawn mower and antique cars, which spend a lot of time in storage, and never have problems with gumming carburetors. If it isn't available at gas stations in your area, I have found it available at Lowes in their lawn mower department. It's expensive at Lowes ($5-6.00 for a quart), but you can run your tank dry before you store the motor, put a little ethanol free gas in the tank and run it into the engine, then disconnect the gas line and run it until it stops.

The efficacy of fuel additives has been questioned lately, but, if you get the ethanol gas completely out of the motor, you almost eliminate the risk.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2020 : 16:05:10

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

While some folks have problems with low idle caused by gummy carburetor jets, it�s not a universal problem...

Although you've reported being one of them, Bruce, and I did once with the Honda you now own. It never happens at a good time. Yes, the new Tohatsu is a little heavier than the old--roughly the same as your Honda. The Merc 9.9 is closer to the older carbed Tohatsu 9.8, although with power tilt it might not be that much lighter. I'm just suggesting considering it...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2020 : 11:14:57

I believe with all small and/or older 4 stroke gasoline engines gas management is critical. A challenge on auxiliary sailboats where the engine may be rarely or intermittently used. HOWEVER the big news in Tim's post is that Bass Pro Shop was less expensive than either Online-Outboards or Defender! I never think of Bass even though their is one about 15 minutes from me. I may check them out for other items.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2020 : 05:31:31

power tilt is very nice when you get old.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2020 : 06:13:06

Hi Peter, I recently visited the Bass Pro Shop up in Bridgeport that you may be referring to. While in the past Cabelas (which BPS purchased a few years ago) used to have higher than average prices, I was delighted to find several �off-season� items at great prices. As March and April come back around I believe the prices will head back up so time is now for bargains.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2020 : 18:01:30

Thanks all for the advice and input. It's a tough decision for me. I think I have to have power tilt, if not now then for the future.

EFI on Tohatsu has been out a couple of years on the 9.9 - 20 HP models but longer for the larger models so I think it's proven reliable.

I agree with the comment on fuel management being key no matter what motor I have. I don't know about the rest of the country but CA has pretty much phased out above-ground fuel tanks. So the temperature stability that underground tanks provided is gone and many times marina fuel has lost a lot of "freshness" before we buy it because of the heat.

I'm down to: (all 25" with electric start and power tilt)

Mercury $2927 Bass Pro Shops
Tohastu $2896 (EFI) Online Outboards
Honda $3506 Online Outboards

The Tohatsu also has a spin-on oil filter and a fuel/water separator that my Merc doesn't have. Also, shift lever is moved to base of the tiller so that is more handy.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2020 : 19:10:07

Bruce: we should get our "Santa Claus" list and schedule a couple of days to go to Bass and Defender. We can play good cop and bad cop to see if better pricing may be obtainable (smile).

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2020 : 20:34:06

Peter, send me a note and let�s do it next weekend or MLKJr Day. Also, there�s a boat show at the Mohegan Sun casino from Jan 16-19 (Thu-Sun)

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

glivs
Admiral

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USA
822 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2020 : 22:10:45

Tim,
Just a couple of thoughts. I don�t know how you sail, but another argument for power tilt is safety. If a situation demanded quick deployment or for the Admiral or a guest to drop the outboard, the power tilt would be nice. I love my Merc but manually tilting it up or down is a bit of muscle and art. The mount has to be just so vertically and the outboard just so or the outboard will hit the mount before the tilt will engage or disengage....and it takes time. I also don�t know how power tilt affects your winter storage requirements, other than adding weight if you remove your outboard. Also, don�t overlook service. Are there dealers available nearby that can offer service if needed? What ever you choose you�re going to love.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

gregographie
Deckhand

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1 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2020 : 19:53:36

Appreciate all of the discussion on a good motor for the Cat 25. Is anyone using or has anyone considered, the Merc. 5 hp, 4-stroke "Sail Power" propane motor? It is lighter (about 60lbs). Can get in a 25" shaft. Concerns would be enough power in rough water and 'safety' using propane? I am new to the forum and found the 9.9. 2003 Merc. two stroke problematic after I purchased an '84 Cat 25 last July.

HappyNow
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2020 : 20:08:59

If you decide to buy at Bass Pro, it would be worth signing up for their credit card which gives you 5% back, so about $150. Otherwise it�s not a great credit card so just stick it in the drawer or cut it up.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2020 : 20:45:13

The Tohatsu you reference includes power tilt. Personally I might leave that feature out, but overall, I'd look very hard at that motor--unless it turns out Mercury is using the Tohatsu EFI powerhead now. (Probably not, but they probably will soon.) But I'd also figure out where I could get service on the motor, and consider buying it from that source rather than Online Outboards.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2020 : 09:15:29

Just saw (1/14) that Defender is having a sale on outboards including the Mercury and Tohatsu -- the pricing looks close to their Warehouse deals so may be a good time for anyone looking to check it out.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2020 : 10:24:13

IMO 5 hp would be fine just to get in and out of a marina, but not enough for a fairly heavy C25 to overcome a strong current or to drive to windward against a strong wind and chop. A 6 hp Tohatsu works well in those conditions on my Cal 25, but it only weighs 4,000 lbs and the bottom is always clean enough to race. My Catalina 25 had a 7 1/2 hp Merc and it was ample, but again, her bottom was always clean.

IIRC, Catalina recommended no more than 9.9 hp, and I think that's sensible. More power might lull you into a false sense of security, thinking that your more powerful engine will be up to more severe conditions. In addition, you'd also need to beef up your transom and upgrade the motor mount because of the added weight. The better recourse is to know when it's time to shelter.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2020 : 18:00:03

Thanks Gerry, I am leaning towards power tilt. I have strained my back and wrist a few times with the Merc and I think, by the end, the shaft if pivots on got bent a little so it was hit and miss on catching.

My boat stays in the water all year except if I pull for a few weeks every other year to service. While in the slip, prop is always up and out of the water. Unfortunately, this can make it a target for passing boats. I've been lucky so far.

Our Marina shop is strictly Mercury but I plan on doing all the maintenance if I get a Tohatsu and I think the important parts are probably the same.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2020 : 18:02:02

quote:
Originally posted by HappyNow

If you decide to buy at Bass Pro, it would be worth signing up for their credit card which gives you 5% back, so about $150. Otherwise it�s not a great credit card so just stick it in the drawer or cut it up.

Excellent idea, thanks.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2020 : 18:05:36

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

The Tohatsu you reference includes power tilt. Personally I might leave that feature out, but overall, I'd look very hard at that motor--unless it turns out Mercury is using the Tohatsu EFI powerhead now. (Probably not, but they probably will soon.) But I'd also figure out where I could get service on the motor, and consider buying it from that source rather than Online Outboards.

Dave, I really would rather not buy online but I don't have too many options for brick and mortar dealers for Tohatsu in Central California. I'm calling one in Alameda tomorrow but I wouldn't be surprised if they get list price for them. I'd like to wait for Mercury to go EFI but I can't wait that long.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2020 : 18:09:34

quote:
Originally posted by bigelowp

Just saw (1/14) that Defender is having a sale on outboards including the Mercury and Tohatsu -- the pricing looks close to their Warehouse deals so may be a good time for anyone looking to check it out.

That is a heck of a sale, $2,543 for 25" Tohatsu 9.9 with EFI and Power Tilt. After tax and shipping probably still less than $3K. The more I think about EFI the more I want it.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2020 : 20:39:30

quote:
Originally posted by keats

quote:
Originally posted by bigelowp

Just saw (1/14) that Defender is having a sale on outboards including the Mercury and Tohatsu -- the pricing looks close to their Warehouse deals so may be a good time for anyone looking to check it out.
That is a heck of a sale, $2,543 for 25" Tohatsu 9.9 with EFI and Power Tilt. After tax and shipping probably still less than $3K. The more I think about EFI the more I want it.

Do it! Do it! Do it!

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2020 : 21:05:12

quote:
Originally posted by keats

That is a heck of a sale, $2,543 for 25" Tohatsu 9.9 with EFI and Power Tilt. After tax and shipping probably still less than $3K. The more I think about EFI the more I want it.

...and here I am just 20 minutes away... (Sorry�I don�t ship.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

keats
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2020 : 18:24:43

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

quote:
Originally posted by keats

That is a heck of a sale, $2,543 for 25" Tohatsu 9.9 with EFI and Power Tilt. After tax and shipping probably still less than $3K. The more I think about EFI the more I want it.
...and here I am just 20 minutes away... (Sorry�I don�t ship.)

I think I got the last one, lol. $195 to ship to CA, I can take it.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2020 : 22:00:55

Just don't forget the crankcase oil and lower unit gear oil--or as we used to say in the computer industry, "RTFM!"

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

keats
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2020 : 12:39:44

Preparing for my new outboard, I'm going to add an hour meter (about $30 from Amazon). I want to keep track of hours for maintenance, especially pump impeller, and if I ever sell the boat.

Looks like it just has an induction wire which wraps around an ignition lead.

Has anyone used or installed one on an outboard? Can/should it be mounted on the engine under the cowl? I was thinking also of the small aft starboard locker on my C-25 which is right in front of the motor. I don't need to see it all the time and want to protect it from the elements.

tia

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

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