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 Allstate Insurance not good at Safe Harbor Marina		  New Topic  Reply to Topic
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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts
Response Posted - 05/13/2022 :  09:47:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK I'll keep going... no conspiracy just business as usual...

SO.... Nationwide said one price, then another higher when they vaguely referred to tickets on my drivers license.. For my own peace of mind I went to the DMV and payed them $7 to get a record of my tickets to see what they might have been referring to ( 3 points ). Then Nationwide quoted a higher price again when I noted they left off the engine on the quote.. They were up to $400.

My allstate agent said she would look ( i guess another carrier ), and that allstate agreed with me in that the marina has no legal interest in my boat ( my words not hers )

it's all starting to sound like BLA,Bla Blah... That'll be another $400 dollars....
Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
Edited by - redeye on 05/13/2022 09:58:31
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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts
Response Posted - 05/13/2022 :  10:46:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Allstate says they have a carrier for less and now I hafta provide picture of the outside and inside of the boat and engine number .... and whattya know, I'm a photographer so I've emailed many wonderful images of the boat... looks better than ever when they are all together...
Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
Edited by - redeye on 05/13/2022 11:54:22
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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts
Response Posted - 05/18/2022 :  06:31:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
United Marine Underwriters offered $480

So so far all of the major insurance companies ( those with advertising with a spokesperson or a lizard ) have quoted around $400 or more. I could not navigate the Geico/Boat US webpage to get a quote with the necessary coverage.
Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts
Response Posted - 05/18/2022 :  06:42:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Im beginning to think nobody wants to insure a boat named Lee Key..... Im beginning to think I need to rethink the name...

I guess I'll go with something like:

Dauntless ... or Incorrigible ... or Insureable....
Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
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TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts
Response Posted - 05/18/2022 :  09:09:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by redeye

Im beginning to think nobody wants to insure a boat named Lee Key..... Im beginning to think I need to rethink the name...

I guess I'll go with something like:

Dauntless ... or Incorrigible ... or Insureable....




wow...what a "fun" experience, hope you get it solved soon. Our place just raised its rates, not sure how much longer I can keep two boats, the fun one might have to go. how about "SV no longer affordable"?
Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 05/18/2022 :  11:19:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unsinkable
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts
Response Posted - 05/19/2022 :  14:07:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It just keeps getting richer all the time...

SOOooooo .... my Allstate agent says here ya go I found a carrier at a reasonable rate you're all set.. just give us your visa number... and the policy states Sun Communities Inc and it's affiliates as additional insureds and loss payees... So Im ecstatic and think I'm all set..

I send a copy to the Marina and ask them if My ducks are in a row... I don't hear back from them... and so I go read the policy and within the thirteen page document of legal speak it states:

"Insured means you and any person, firm, corporation or legal entity that may be operating the insured watercraft with your prior permission. However, this does not include a paid captain or any paid crew member of the insured watercraft. Nor does it include any person, firm, corporation or other legal entity or any of their agents or employees operating a shipyard, boat repair facility, marina, yacht club, sales agency, chartering agency, yacht broker, boat service station, salvor, towing service or similar organization."

So.....It appears that they have given themselves an out. Given I'm no Lawyer I couldn't tell either way.

and now I have TWO boat policies paid for for the next year and still not sure if the marina is going to move forward.

I still feel confident everything will be fine, it's just gonna take beating the dead horse for 12 days of my life... Ugh

Wouldn't it be lovely if the 2.1 billion dollar Marina and the insurance Agencies would work out these difficulties for the benefit of their paying clients.
Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
Edited by - redeye on 05/19/2022 14:12:32
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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts
Response Posted - 05/30/2022 :  11:41:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Soooo......

now the marina says yes we have received your policy. After carefully reading the 18 page insurance policy they have sent me after paying for the policy I find the declarations page on the policy does not include the engine, and the policy states, " Insured watercraft means: (a) the watercraft and motor(s) shown on the Declarations Page"

etc, etc. including sails, spars, machinery, and necessary equipment.....

So basically they are saying if it aint on the declarations page it aint insured....


So they require me to provide the engine information in order to give me a quote and then they leave the engine off the policy...

and I hafta decide if I'm gonna give this a rest after 30 days or just keep slugging away till they get it right.

Do I want to pay another $50 a year ( or more as I don't know what they will come back with ) to include insurance on a $1000 engine I will probably never list a claim on unless it is stolen, which is the most common thing that happens with these engines.....
Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts
Response Posted - 05/30/2022 :  11:56:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So I tell the insurance agent they asked for the engine information to make the quote and then leave off the engine on the declarations page. I ask them to add the engine info and amend the policy and send me the new policy.

Oh Joy....

Hurray, Hurray the first of May
Insurance reviews begin today.
Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 05/31/2022 :  16:27:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ray, what a freakin’ nightmare!!! I believe that they ask you about the outboard not so much that they’ll insure it due to a loss, but because the engine can cause a fire, accidentally cut swimmers to shreds, or push an out-of-control boat into another boat, a dock or another dockside building and do some serious damage.
If your $1000 outboard were a total loss, they’d probably pay you less any deductible on the policy.
The industry basically has us boat owners over a barrel along with the marina industry.
I reckon it goes like this: you wanna play so you gotta pay!
A friend of mine always says: “It’s better to be in the ‘want’ business rather than to be in the ‘need’ business”
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Edited by - Voyager on 05/31/2022 16:29:20
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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts
Response Posted - 05/31/2022 :  17:53:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
<< I reckon it goes like this: >>

THE lesson to me is if you ask for a quote on a boat insurance policy you ask them for a quote to insure a boat and an engine, and the sails, and the contents of the boat.

Which means you are fully insured ( adding liability of course )

OR you decide if you are just going to carry liability and willing to risk uninsured loss to some degree. ie don't insure the engine, or the sails, or the contents.


so I hafta decide: Do I want to have everything insured and pay $500 dollars a year? or can I carry liability and cover the Hull for $300

The insurance agents should be saying that, rather than "What is your engine specs?" and then leaving it off the policy. You think that since you gave them the engine specs it would be on the policy. And they were like "Oh it was an oversight, NOW the quote is this much higher"

I'm sure they expect you to tire of all this time consuming back and forth and just settle for their price.

Three different companies did this...

Showing me what a yahoo I am.. please let this be a lesson to others.

Now my last quote comes with a policy that says nothing is insured that is not declared ..

what are we gonna do here folks???? OK how much is the policy if you include the anchors???

I have some very nice anchors





Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
Edited by - redeye on 05/31/2022 17:56:17
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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts
Response Posted - 07/23/2022 :  08:57:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ray,
Maybe it would be worth it to look into joining Lake Lanier Sailing Club after your year is up. I race there occasionally, but have no clue what dues are or if a slip is available or how long their waiting list might be.
DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 07/23/2022 :  10:46:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It seems to me, regarding boats, that "machinery" they mention is primarily the engine needed to make the boat move. "Needed?" Well, unless you think an average boater can paddle or sail a 25' sailboat out of and back into a slip. I think I would have asked the insurer what they mean by "machinery".

I'm guessing the marina wants documented loss coverage for the boat to cover for the not-uncommon abandonment. Look around most marinas... Some of the boats on the hard mid-season are effectively abandoned--taking up storage space, no bills being paid, no owner reachable, registration expired years ago, refurbishing would cost more than it could be sold for, no title, awaiting expensive disposal.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/23/2022 10:51:55
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hlprmnky
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts
Response Posted - 08/16/2022 :  09:22:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just a quick aside to the last post, my C25 is still on the hard today (really, had I been more experienced I would’ve not even signed for a slip this year and just committed 100% to a full season refit, but I digress) and there are, within sight of my cradle, not one but two Catalina 25s in that sorry state you describe - untouched on their cradles, 3-5 year old registration stickers, tattered old shrinkwrap and in one case, tattered old sails.

I have half a mind to ask the yard what they’d charge me to pick them over for spares. That way at least a little piece of them could get back under the hand of a caring owner and back out on the water.
1985 C25 SR/FK/Trad. “Puffin III” - #5040
Sailing Lake Michigan out of Michigan City, IN
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 08/16/2022 :  14:09:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hlprmnky

...I have half a mind to ask the yard what they’d charge me to pick them over for spares...
If I were the marina owner, I'd likely say you can have both boats (whole), as long as you make them both wholly gone. (Have you read the storage contract for any provisions applying to abandonment?)
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/16/2022 14:11:51
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 08/16/2022 :  16:00:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like there’s going to be a parting out party soon in Indiana. I wonder whether the marina would be interested in posting any photos of the boats here on the forum, and I also wonder the year, interior and keel type these boats have? For example, a late 80s early 90s wing keel would be a find. A bimini or dodger would be saleable. Solid teak brightwork or interior teak would fetch a price. A usable galley stove or compass might be interesting. A person who was within driving distance might be interested in mast, boom, bow or stern pulpit, rudder or tiller, or head.
The part out list can go on and on...
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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