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Need a new main halyard

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/29/2023 : 11:48:26

So I have to replace my main halyard that has finally been destroyed by the UV where it lays on the deck between the mast and cockpit. My manual calls for 75ft of 3/8" dacron. I looked at CD and they sell a Jib/main set( I dont need the jib) but the size is 5/16". My question is would the difference between the 5/16 and the 3/8 size be noticable as far as handling or is it not that big of a deal. Also any suggestions on the line type or size?? Im not a racer so a good decent line would do.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1889 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2023 : 08:03:35

Scott,

For halyards and sheets I use polyester (Dacron) double braid, 5/16" on a Catalina 22, 3/8" on a Catalina 25. It's my impression that 5/16" sheets and halyards would work OK on the C25. I'm confident good quality 5/16" line would be strong enough. I believe the biggest difference would be how the line feels in your hands when you're pulling on it hard. On my C25 I use cabin top winches and line clutches to tension halyards, whereas on my C22 I just use cam cleats and bare hands.

I've been happy with line from New England Ropes and Sampson, which are available in a variety of colors. I assume there are other perfectly good rope brands out there, just look for advertised specs such as materials, breaking strength, and splicing instructions.

� Leon Sisson

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2023 : 15:01:36

I suspect the original 3/8" spec is for a wire-to-rope halyard (original equipment until the later years). But for all-rope, which many people have changed to and CD has kits for, 3/8" might not fit in the original sheaves that have to be replaced for rope (and probably should be anyway). And larger sheaves might not fit in the masthead casting. I switched to all-5/16"-rope, replacing the sun-damaged sheaves. At the same time, I led the main halyard back to the cockpit, and added a main dousing line, also using CD components (blocks, organizers and clutches). My original main halyard was 3/8" to wire--the 5/16 worked fine for me. I bought CD's high-tech halyards (shackles pre-spliced) because I wanted low stretch for the roller-furled jib, since it stayed cleated and under substantial tension for the whole season.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/30/2023 15:16:26

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2023 : 15:49:31

The simple solution is to replace what you have with the same size and length. You'll know it works with your existing fittings and is the right length. As between 5/16 and 3/8, I don't think it makes much difference to the sailing of the boat. The question of handling it is mostly a matter of personal preference. Some people handle either size line with their bare hands and think nothing of it while it irritates the skin and causes cracking for others. How sensitive is your skin to that sort of thing? I advocate wearing gloves because they make line handling more comfortable and they protect you from rope burns and pinches, which can be severe.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2023 : 13:36:48

Contact Cajun Ropes (www.cajunropes.com) They are a canadian rigger that offers pre-made rigging for boats like the C-25. I have used them for years. Excellent service, quick delivery, accept cc. And . . . you are paying in Canadian dollars so, thanks to the exchange rate, prices are excellent!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2023 : 15:22:29

I replaced Dave Stinkpotter�s original halyards with the same size line from NE Rope and they just last and last. Each spring I wash the salt out with Dawn dish soap and water. It makes a huge difference in the feel of the line through my hands. Never winch the lines, instead I use the cleat to stretch and harden the line.
I use NE Line exclusively all over. For downhaul, outhaul, reefing and furling. Not cheap but it doesn�t owe me a dime.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2023 : 14:08:48

Thanks for all the replys and sorry for not getting back on this but this was the week my boat got hauled out so I was busy winterizing the water system, Removing the engine, Bringing it home and doing the maintanence, flush, oil change, lube, etc. Tomorrow I'll put the cover on and wait till next season. I did cut a piece of the old halyard and took it to WM and sized it up. Its 3/8" so I've got all winter to shop around. I also found out that the WM near me doesn,t do splicing anymore. That is a shocker.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2023 : 08:59:58

quote:
Originally posted by islander

...I also found out that the WM near me doesn,t do splicing anymore. That is a shocker.

Sorta like tuning carburetors--they can't find anyone who knows how!

BTW, you might want to check your mast-head sheaves along with replacing the halyard(s)--if they're the plastic version, the sun mess them up. CD's seem to all be for 5/16" lines except for the ones for wire halyards.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/05/2023 09:46:12

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1889 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2023 : 10:45:44

Dave Bristle makes a good point about the masthead halyard sheeves. I completely forgot about converting to internal halyards. The internal halyard sheeves from Catalina Direct are plenty wide enough for 3/8" line, whereas the original side-by-side sheeves for external wire definitely won't accept line that thick.

I second Steve Milby's point about sailing gloves, depending upon how your hands feel about hauling on lines. I use enough mechanical advantage on control lines, and generally avoid cold weather and high winds, so I'm usually comfortable sailing bare handed.

Considering the cost of good quality halyards, when they need replacement it might be a good time to consider converting from external wire&rope to internal all rope.

As for eye splicing double braid to shackles, I do my own. Class I eye splices aren't as mysterious once you've done a few. Sampson provides good instructions, "Double Braid Class I Eye Splice", as does "New England Ropes." Just don't plan on your first one being quick or perfect. I suggest starting with a double braided anchor line or dock line where finished length isn't so critical that you can't afford to cut off and throw away disappointing lessons learned.

� Leon Sisson

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2023 : 21:55:15

quote:
Originally posted by Leon Sisson

...Just don't plan on your first one being quick or perfect.� I suggest starting with a double braided anchor line or dock line where finished length isn't so critical that you can't afford to cut off and throw away disappointing lessons learned.

...Or like me, start with a halyard from CD with a new shackle expertly spliced onto it so the splice can ride onto the mast-head sheave without jamming.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/05/2023 21:59:04

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2023 : 05:22:16

One more question, Would 80ft be long enough on a standard rig that is led back to the cockpit??

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1889 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2023 : 12:53:33

Re: "Would 80ft be long enough on a standard rig that is led back to the cockpit?"

I'd say so. I think my standard rig main halyard led aft is 70 ft. If you don't mind dealing with an extra yard or so, that can give you the option of shortening and resplicing to eliminate (or at least relocate) a worn spot later.

While the mainsail is lowered, I use the extra halyard length to flip it out and around a spreader to prevent clanging, and down to the gooseneck to lift the boom off the Bimini when docked.

Another thought on halyards led aft � adding cam cleats on the mast a few feet above deck allows temporarily cleating halyards without having to go all the way back to the cockpit controls. When pulled from the cockpit, the halyard easily pops out of the mast cam cleat.

� Leon Sisson

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2023 : 10:04:46

quote:
Originally posted by Leon Sisson

Another thought on halyards led aft � adding cam cleats on the mast a few feet above deck allows temporarily cleating halyards without having to go all the way back to the cockpit controls.� When pulled from the cockpit, the halyard easily pops out of the mast cam cleat.�

Cool! (Too bad I can't add that on my $+!nkp*+.)

Scott: Are your halyards internal or external? If external for all-rope, Leon is essentially pointing out you'll need to go with 5/16", as CD provides in their kits for leading aft and replacing sheaves. 3/8" worked with wire-to-rope since the wire was what ran over the sheaves. Converting to internal requires cutting openings near the base of the mast.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/09/2023 10:06:24

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2023 : 12:10:02

Dave, My boat is an 87 and the halyard is internal all rope no wire. It has the big sheave up top I replaced the problematic white sheave with the black one back when I replaced all of the standing rigging a few years ago. 3/8" line will work because that is the size I am replacing and will be easier on my arthritic hands than 5/16" I got new sails a year ago and they are stiff and takes a lot of umph to pull the main up. I have to resort to the cabin top winch for the last third.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2023 : 19:21:51

quote:
Originally posted by islander

...I have to resort to the cabin top winch for the last third.

Do the slides need lubrication/cleaning? I just squirted liquid hand soap (with lanolin) on top of the uppermost slide in the track. It sometimes even made a clean spot on my cabintop.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2023 : 21:54:38

Agree with Dave - Lubricating the slides. It has been a long time since I purchased my sails but I do recall them being stiff especially when trying to fold and tie them down to the boom and perhaps they were a bit harder to raise as well. I changed the big sheaves at the top this past summer. The old white sheave was significantly deteriorated and had eventually just fell off, then until I replaced the sheave, it was a bear to raise the main since the halyard was just turning on the spindle!

You may want to also check out/ensure the internal sheaves at the base of the mast are fairly easy to turn. Not sure how easily a 3/8" versus a 5/16" halyard works with the old sheave since my experience has only been using a 5/16" halyard. Eventually, I replaced the internal sheaves at the mast base with ones I purchased from CD.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 11/09/2023 21:57:14

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