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 Outboard motor: Tohatsu 9.8HP recommendations		  New Topic  Reply to Topic
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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts
Response Posted - 11/28/2021 :  09:01:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I were getting back into a C25 (damn, I miss that boat), I definitely would want the Tohatsu/Mercury/Nissan 9.8hp 25" shaft electric start or a similar Yamaha or Honda, if my pockets were deeper. Even on a lake, the 20" shaft motor I already had and used temporarily proved to be undesirable. I had the Nissan 9.8 version and loved it. I understand that Nissan has dropped out of that category, so it is Tohatsu/Mercury going forward. One thing I really liked about the Yamaha was that the gear shift lever was on the tiller bar, easier to reach, although being on the front of the engine on mine was not a problem.
DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 11/28/2021 :  12:09:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott, I hear you, Defender also shows backordered on the electric start engine, but some pull cord motors are available… Good news for me is that I can afford to be patient seeing I probably won’t be sailing until April at the earliest. I’m sure the engines on that boat off CA are pretty much spoken for however as boating has enjoyed a huge resurgence during the pandemic.
Dave I’ll try calling Defender this week to see what they can do about placing an order and ETA projections. The Honda 8 was still working fine as I motored upriver for my haulout.
If I were to offer the Honda for sale, anybody seen any asking price estimates for a 18+ year-old 4 stroke?
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Volksaholic
1st Mate

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55 Posts
Response Posted - 11/28/2021 :  12:20:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

So is the Great Salt Lake going the way of the Salton Sea? I reckon its fresh water tributaries are being tapped for drinking water and irrigation, and thus the lake itself is in the process of shrinking? Of course the recent decrease of rainwater isn’t helping either.

Unfortunately it's not looking too good for the GSL, and you nailed it; our legislature keeps approving diversions for agriculture and growing populations, water rates are low enough that a majority of home owners don't believe that keeping a golf-course grade lawn in a drought stricken desert is a problem. That coupled with decreased snowfall over the last couple decades seems to be doing it in.
Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape
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Volksaholic
1st Mate

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55 Posts
Response Posted - 11/28/2021 :  12:28:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was curious how much it would cost to add electric start to an appropriate motor if I find a 25" shaft pull start. It looks like the kit sells for right around $1000. I guess it's good to know my options, but that's clearly not a cost effective way of getting what I need.
Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 11/28/2021 :  16:21:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Volksaholic

I was curious how much it would cost to add electric start to an appropriate motor if I find a 25" shaft pull start. It looks like the kit sells for right around $1000. I guess it's good to know my options, but that's clearly not a cost effective way of getting what I need.
...and the labor (from a person who probably has never done it before) could add another grand--unless you feel like taking a stab at it yourself, risking the integrity of a brand new outboard. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 11/29/2021 :  17:20:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I noticed about a $200-300 difference in the prices between a pull-start versus an electric start engine. Add to that you don’t get an alternator to charge your battery and the equation just doesn’t add up.

I could be wrong, but I believe that an electric start add-on kit is intended for folks who somehow wound up with a few-years-old pull-start engine and decided that they wanted or needed to add an electric-start option. At that point, if you’re handy you could probably DIY it. If not then you have to enlist the services of a marine mechanic.

My auto mechanic charges between $80-120 per hour to work on my car. I’d assume any time you add the word “marine” or boat to anything, it’s a 1.5X to 2X multiplier. A four-hour job turns into a boat-buck pretty quick!
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 11/30/2021 :  05:21:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And remember that any old Marine mechanic just won't do. Certified Tohatsu mechanic only so you don't jeopardize your warranty.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts
Response Posted - 11/30/2021 :  22:33:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just checked Online Outboards. They have the 9.9 extra long shaft outboards In Stock.

The two models available both have EFI, alternators, and are high thrust versions with 4 blade props.

One has electric start, the other is electric start with power tilt.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX
Edited by - GaryB on 11/30/2021 22:38:05
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 12/01/2021 :  22:24:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Be aware that the 9.9 (EFI) is considerably heavier than the 9.8 (carb). But not that much for adding 1/10th of a horse!
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/01/2021 22:29:37
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Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts
Response Posted - 12/01/2021 :  23:00:40  Show Profile  Visit Lee Panza's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The big advantage of the EFI, it seems to me, would be eliminating the periodic clogging of the idle jet. I'm careful about where I buy gas, I've installed a Racor filter (with a clear sump), and I still had another clog recently. I keep a spare carb onboard now, and I can change it while anchored out, but it's still a nuisance.
The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 12/02/2021 :  11:45:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lee Panza

The big advantage of the EFI, it seems to me, would be eliminating the periodic clogging of the idle jet...
Agreed! I think I pointed that out here when the T-9.9 first hit the market. (I'm not sure why I found out.) I've had the idle jet problem, too--If I were in the market, I'd be looking HARD at the T-9.9. Fuel injection is not new or unproven technology--just a little more expensive. The big difference is that it's pressure, not suction, that creates the spray. Honda and Yamaha have been putting into smaller and smaller models every year, and eventually will get down to this size.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/02/2021 11:50:13
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 12/03/2021 :  10:03:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You’re right about the added weight of an EFI model however, the engine I was looking at weighs about 150# versus the carbureted type at around 100-110#. That takes a whole ‘nother person to lug it around.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 12/03/2021 :  11:22:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
150# would probably set a record for the heaviest outboard ever put on a C25. You'd need a hoist to install and remove it. I helped a friend install a 108# outboard on his sailboat and it took three of us to do it safely. 150# hung that far aft would definitely make the boat squat aft. I'd be in favor of anything you have to do to be able to get out and sail, but a 150# outboard has a lot of negatives.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 12/03/2021 :  12:33:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oops! I misspoke about the engines weight.
The actual unit weighs a whopping 121# while he shipping weight (with frame and carton) weighs in at 150#.
See Tohatsu 9.9 EFI XLS

Still at 121# it’s pretty hefty. My old British Seagull weighs 40-50# maybe soaking wet?

The equivalent carburetor version is 94#
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Edited by - Voyager on 12/03/2021 12:42:58
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 12/03/2021 :  16:28:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's good to know. When I saw the 150# outboard motor it took my breath away...about like when I got on the scale the morning after Thanksgiving!
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 12/04/2021 :  05:30:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That 121lbs. Is probably dry weight so add a little more for the gear and engine oils. Would this require a new 4 springer?
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 12/04/2021 :  09:44:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bruce: I believe your (once my) Honda 8 XL high-thrust with electric start comes in at 108#, so the Tohatsu with power tilt added is 13# more--probably similar to a Honda 15, which people have used on C-25s. Take away the power tilt and the T-9.9 XL electric start is 112#, or 4# more than yours. How badly do you want power tilt? (I recall it took one click of tilt to get the skeg out of the water with the bracket up--maybe another click for sailing on port tack.)
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts
Response Posted - 12/04/2021 :  09:47:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As much of a pain as a carb can be (I have replaced mine twice on my 2007 Tohatsu 9.8) the lower weight is appreciated every time I use the engine. @20 lbs. may not seem like much, until you are hanging over the stern rail trying to get the engine up -- or trying to lower it without the weight smacking against the transom. There is a reason Tohatsu brought back the 9.8 two years after replacing it with the EFI 9.9
Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 12/04/2021 :  11:02:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Without a doubt, some people really need a 121 lb 9.9 hp motor to cope with really strong currents, but in reality, most of us can get by just fine with a 61 lb Tohatsu Sailpro 6 hp, with alternator, not to mention the considerable price disparity. ($3,223.00 for the 9.9 at Defender vs $1,689.00 for the Sailpro 6 at Tohatsu Direct) The performance difference is about 1/2 kt top speed.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 12/06/2021 :  12:21:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let's be sure we're comparing apples to apples. For an electric start, extra long without power tilt (which I think is the only way the T-9.8 comes).

T-9.8 (carb): 95 lbs. $2,540 (Online Outboards)
T-9.9 (EFI): 112 lbs. $2,736 " "

I'm not recommending Online Outboards--just offering the comparison between the two motors. Actually I prefer a local dealer wherever that's practical. A dealer will bench-test the motor and deal with whatever isn't just right. A web store will send it in the factory crate--the rest is up to you.

A 6hp is a whole different thing--manual start (boy did I like my electric), one cylinder (so more noise), and could struggle trying to make it to port in a 3' head sea against a stiff wind. But not everyone is concerned with those things... It's certainly easier to get on and off the bracket, which I did annually to my 108 pounder with a friendly assist from a forklift operator in the marina. He'd lift me to the motor, and I'd slide it off...
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts
Response Posted - 01/23/2022 :  16:19:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
FYI on the issue of pull start vs electric start, my 2014 9.9 Tohatsu starts on the first pull 90% of the time, the other 8% on the 2nd pull. 2% it takes a few pulls, I dont know why. Easy to start as my 11 year old can pull start it. Electric is better but the pull start isn't a deal breaker. Like others have said before a fuel filter is a good idea.

Erik
Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 01/23/2022 :  20:06:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Erik, I like a pull start fine enough provided that the engine has an alternator. If not, then that’s a deal-breaker for me since I only have solar and the engine to recharge my battery.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts
Response Posted - 01/29/2022 :  12:25:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with Erik -- other than the first start of the season, it always starts on first or second pull. I have used the electric start only for the first start of the season to save my arm from four or five pulls. If my son (Erik he works on submarines for EB in Groton) is with me on that first sail of the season I let him pull (smile)
Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT
Edited by - bigelowp on 01/29/2022 12:27:23
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 01/29/2022 :  12:53:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I love listening to you young, purist whippersnappers!
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.