Catalina - Capri - 25s International Assocaition Logo(2006)  
Assn Members Area · Join
Association Forum
Association Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Forum Users | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums
 Catalina 250 Specific Forum
 New (to me) Catalina 250 Owner here
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

huppstar
Deckhand

Member Avatar

USA
2 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/20/2020 :  15:14:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all,
Just bought a 1999 WK and am excited to be joining the club!

I do have a few beginner questions and hope you don't mind if they are basic. I did do some searches on the forums but didn't find full answers to my questions.

- The previous owner threw in a Catalina 25 Bimini top - does anyone know if this will fit? I assume I have to make some cuts to deal with the split backstays, but anything else?

- Electric bilge: Since I'll be keeping the boat on mooring ball, wondering if anyone has experience installing one of these? From what I can tell you want the auto and manual hoses to be separate; does this mean I need to drill a hole in the hull?

- Seacocks: I can't seem to see seacocks on this boat. Am I just missing them/not looking hard enough or are they not included??

- Winterization: I bought this boat on the premise to my wife that it wouldn't be much maintenance work. I hope I'm right! This is what I have on my list. Am I missing anything major?
- Engine antifreeze, oil change, disconnect fuel
- Water system antifreeze
- Portapotty removal
- Sail removal/storage
- Cushion removal/storage
Also - any tips on covering the boat for the winter? Is it worth it to spring for the shrink wrap at the yard?

Solar vent - is it worth it to install?

Lastly - when I bought the boat the mast wiring was not working (anchor & head lights out). Assuming it's wiring. I saw catalina direct sells the kit but I would rather not buy it unnecessarily. Is there a way I can check the wiring before buying the kit?

Thanks in advance for any responses! Very much looking forward to many years of sailing. I am sailing mainly in western Long Island sound.

1999 Catalina 250 WK
Name TBD (Suggestions???)
Long Island Sound

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2264 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2020 :  19:59:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congrats, it's a great boat. Any boat needs maintenance, but the C250's simple systems make the fun/hassle ratio very high. I know this especially well since I've moved on to a larger boat which, while also great fun, does take a lot more work. If I hadn't "cut my teeth" on the C250, then my current boat would have been overwhelming.

If your engine is an outboard, then there should be no antifreeze. (There were a very few C250s produced with inboard diesels, but I think they were all after 1999). Just pull the cord a few times with the motor out of the water to clear the impeller of enough water to avoid freeze bursting.

Be sure to burn all fuel out of the carburetor. I used to do this after every use, since E10 fuels could leach plasticizers out of seals and fuel hose, and would turn acidic if they absorbed water. Also, I'd suggest putting on a new fuel filter each year. On my Honda it was a little white in-line housing inside the motor cowling.

Electric bilge pump - What I am about to tell you is controversial: I always hated the idea of cutting additional holes in the hull, and the space for a second hose under the floor was VERY limited. So I just stuck an electric pump (with integral electronic sensor switch) on the inlet of the existing hose. It worked great, and survived 2 hurricanes where the boat may have sunk (or at least covered the cabin sole) if it didn't work properly. People will tell you that the Catalina-supplied manual Whale pump (diaphragm type) will prevent water from being pumped through it. They are wrong. Diaphragm pumps always have check valves (actually flappers) on inlet and outlet to force one-way flow, and in this case they both point in the right direction. An electric pump will push water right through it. And if you need to use the manual Whale pump, it will pull the water right through the electic pump, which becomes a real nice strainer to keep debris from jamming the flappers in the Whale pump. Is this as bullet-proof and redundant as having two fully separate pumps and hoses? No. But is it a vast improvement over the manual-only system that most C250s have? Definitely. This is your choice, but my decision was to not let perfection be the enemy of good enough.

I would advise testing the Whale pump every year and ensuring that the diaphragm is in good shape. If it cracks, then it may just leak water from your electric pump back into the bilge again.

Seacocks: On my C250 the galley and head sinks both drained above he waterline, so Catalina had through-hulls without seacocks. So without an inboard diesel, you probably don't have any seacocks.

Covering the boat: Shrinkwrap seems to be a powerboat thing, and I've heard stories of moisture buildup and mold if you didn't have proper vents installed. Of course, the vents kind of eliminate the idea of shrinkwrap, so might as well just use a tarp. I used to drop the mast every season and support it fore (on a homemade cradle across the pulpit), amidships (homemade brace in the tabernackle made out of PVC pipe fittings) and aft (sawhorse in the cockpit). Then I'd buy heavy duty silver tarps to throw over the whole boat like a tent. A good quality tarp would last about 3 seasons. My current boat came with a custom-made canvas tarp with zippers to go around all the stays and mast.

Solar vent: Once again, I hated cutting holes. I had shore power, so I'd run a miniature dehumidifier on the galley counter with drain hose going to the sink. In the off-season I'd put several DampRid canisters in the boat. My current boat has a solar vent, but it's cut into the acrylic hatch instead of into the fiberglass. When I went to replace the broken solar vent this year, the hatch broke and needed to be replaced. It just goes to show you that there's a risk to doing anything, so always expect the job to take 3x as long (and cost 3x as much) as you think.

I'll let others answer your remaining questions.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/20/2020 20:07:36
Go to Top of Page

huppstar
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
2 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2020 :  14:48:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First - thanks so much for the detailed response - incredibly helpful!!

Hopefully some other posters can help with the bimini and electrical question.

quote:
Originally posted by TakeFive
Be sure to burn all fuel out of the carburetor. I used to do this after every use, since E10 fuels could leach plasticizers out of seals and fuel hose, and would turn acidic if they absorbed water. Also, I'd suggest putting on a new fuel filter each year. On my Honda it was a little white in-line housing inside the motor cowling.



Yes, I have an outboard Honda 8 HP. Was planning to do fuel burnoff, oil drain in the fall. Spring would do spark plug replacement, fuel filter replacement, gear oil replacement, fill up with oil and cross fingers.

quote:
Originally posted by TakeFive
Electric bilge pump - What I am about to tell you is controversial:
...


Thanks for the detail here. I think based on my goals here will be taking this approach. Now I just need to figure out how to thread the wire down there!

quote:
Originally posted by TakeFive
Solar vent: Once again, I hated cutting holes. I had shore power, so I'd run a miniature dehumidifier on the galley counter with drain hose going to the sink.


Maybe I'll just see how next season goes. Past owner kept it on mooring and my 1 month of ownership here have not had a problem with musty smells. For winter, definitely am buying some crystals to prevent humidity.

Thanks again for the great response!

1999 Catalina 250 WK
Name TBD (Suggestions???)
Long Island Sound
Go to Top of Page

Dave Brown
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
154 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2020 :  10:29:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, you need some rails on the side of the boat, so the placement of the Bimini can move and move the attachment point of the main sheet
To the boom , forward 18 inch.
I sent you an E Mail
DB
Go to Top of Page

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4865 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2020 :  16:52:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Checking the mast wiring can generally be done using two or three wires with alligator clips attached and a 9volt battery. You can attach a wire the negative terminal of the 9V (larger one) and to the common wire in the deck connector. Then connect the positive side to the masthead light then the steaming light. You can find the deck plug wiring diagram in the owner’s manual on the left of the Forum margins. Please note that the battery won’t last long because incandescent bulbs draw a couple of amps.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Go to Top of Page

Khaine
Deckhand

Members Avatar

Canada
3 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2021 :  07:59:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Everyone,

New Catalina 250 owner here (will update my ‘signature’ soon!).

For winterization of the freshwater, marine head and bilge systems, how much antifreeze should I expect to need? I’m hoping to avoid the inevitable return trip to the store if I run out.


2002 Catalina 250 WK
Lake Ontario

Edited by - Khaine on 10/15/2021 08:32:07
Go to Top of Page

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5627 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2021 :  09:14:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Khaine

Hi Everyone,

New Catalina 250 owner here (will update my ‘signature’ soon!).

For winterization of the freshwater, marine head and bilge systems, how much antifreeze should I expect to need? I’m hoping to avoid the inevitable return trip to the store if I run out.



I'll start with the fresh water system. Empty the tank of water and then pour just enough RV antifreeze in the tank so that you can pump it through the faucets and pink stuff comes out. That protects the lines and the faucets.

Toilet - If you have a marine toilet, disconnect the hose that provides flush water. Using a funnel, pour RV antifreeze in it and pump the flush handle until pink stuff enters the bowl. That protects the toilet pump from freezing.

If you have a porta potty, empty the tank that contains flush water, pour a cup or two of RV antifreeze in it and pump it until pink stuff enters the bowl. That protects the pump. Obviously, empty the waste tank.

Bilge pumps - Pour RV antifreeze into the take-up hose for the manual bilge pump using a funnel, and then pump it until pink stuff comes out. Do the same for an electric bilge pump, although the specific procedure might vary slightly depending on how the particular pump is made. The goal is to get antifreeze through the pump and to get pink stuff through the outlet.

If your bilge will be dry in the spring, you don't need to put any antifreeze in the bilge. If you expect it to have water in it, about a half gallon should be enough.

I generally buy two gallons. One gallon or a bit more is usually enough, but don't be stingy with it. You're preventing damage. You'll use any leftover next year.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 10/15/2021 09:18:07
Go to Top of Page

Khaine
Deckhand

Members Avatar

Canada
3 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2021 :  09:59:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the very detailed reply Steve!

2002 Catalina 250 WK
Lake Ontario
Go to Top of Page

HappyNow
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
95 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2021 :  18:24:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a Honda 9.9 1998 model. I disconnect the fuel line with the engine running ( in the water of course) to run out the fuel. To get the last bit out of the engine, there’s a carburetor drain screw that with a few turns removes the remaining few drops. If you can’t find it, it’s detailed in the manual, which you can probably find online.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe
Go to Top of Page

Dave Brown
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
154 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2021 :  13:04:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
questions about winteriztion,
most of the things were covered above, but don't forget the battery, and anything that would liquid that would freeze.
as for the solar vent. yes, yes yes. its the way to go.
Dave B
ps: did you get the e mail on the Bimini ?
Go to Top of Page

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
8763 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2021 :  19:33:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just a couple of things:

Antifreeze: I do as Steve describes, and then do it again. The first time, some water is probably still in the tank, diluting the antifreeze, which reduces its effectiveness. Pumping the diluted combination out and then adding more antifreeze and pumping that through increases the concentration in the tank, the line, and the pump. Each time, pump till it's sucking air.

Solar vent: It's the most effective mildew protection I've found. It pumps out damp daytime air and draws in night air that has dropped much of its moisture outside. It's especially effective when you're sleeping and adding your own humidity to the inside air, which can literally create rain from the overhead in weather that makes you close up the cabin.

Congratulations!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV,
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
Go to Top of Page

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2264 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2021 :  21:35:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For antifreeze, I check it with a $20 refractometer.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079N97V8C

Note that the pink antifreeze has a -50F "burst point", but actually "freezes" (turns to slush) at a higher temperature than that. So I always "calibrate" the refractometer by first checking the pure antifreeze out of the bottle, then checking what comes out the faucet to ensure it's within a few degrees of what's in the bottle.

My current boat has three water tanks (two cold water and one hot water), plus and inboard diesel and holding tank/toilet, so I get a lot of use out of the refractometer.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)
Go to Top of Page

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
8763 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2021 :  08:00:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TakeFive

For antifreeze, I check it with a $20 refractometer...

I check the color.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV,
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
Go to Top of Page

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5627 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2021 :  08:44:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

quote:
Originally posted by TakeFive

For antifreeze, I check it with a $20 refractometer...

I check the color.

Likewise. When the antifreeze first begins to flow through the lines, it is diluted by the water that's still in the lines, and it's pale pink. After flowing for a few seconds, it darkens. When it's the same deep pink as is in the jug, I'm satisfied. That procedure never resulted in a burst line or broken fixture on my boats.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
Go to Top of Page

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2264 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2021 :  20:15:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I "did it by eye" for many years. I bought the refractometer because I had other non-marine needs for it. But once I tried it on the boat I was a little surprised how much the freezing point can rise with an almost imperceptible reduction in the strength of the color. So I have no regrets that I bought it.

I do remember when I first used it I hoped that it would save me money on antifreeze. It had the opposite effect of alerting me to insufficient protection in certain systems, so I actually buy a little more antifreeze now. If my air conditioner or hot water heater were to burst, it would be a huge expense.

Just posting for others since nobody else mentioned it - no obligation to follow my advice.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/29/2021 20:18:21
Go to Top of Page

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4865 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2021 :  07:32:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anecdotally, while I don’t have a refractometer, I did have occasion to use the pink antifreeze in the water holding tank one year. It was the year we had the “Polar Vortex” cold snap here in the Northeast. So I took the steps, pump the tank “dry” using the sink faucet, check the filler hoses and blow them out and open the access port to sop up any standing water with a rag or paper towels. Then put in a few pints of antifreeze and run the faucet until you see the pink full force. All well and good.
Once February hit with its below zero cold snap, there were a few drips in the sink. I think it hit -5° or -10°F which is very unusual for us.
“That’s odd” I thought, so I checked the hose supplying the faucet. It was all a chunky frozen slurry of pink juice. Next spring, I had to replace my sink faucet, it was internally damaged.
I thought I had a bad batch of antifreeze. So perhaps the protection is not apparent by color.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Go to Top of Page

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5627 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2021 :  09:01:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TakeFive


I do remember when I first used it I hoped that it would save me money on antifreeze. It had the opposite effect of alerting me to insufficient protection in certain systems, so I actually buy a little more antifreeze now.

I think this is really the crux of the matter. If your goal is to minimize the use of antifreeze, you probably won't leave much margin for error.

There's nothing wrong with using a refractometer. If you use one, and the freeze point isn't low enough, your remedy is to add more antifreeze. If you use the color method, but you're more generous in the use of antifreeze to begin with, you'll arrive at the same result. I always used the color method, but was generous in the use of antifreeze, on the theory that $3.50 for an extra gallon of antifreeze is cheap insurance against freeze damage.

It also helps to reduce the amount of water residue in the tank and to start with a dry bilge. You can do that by moving around the boat while the pump is running, rolling it back and forth, to move the water over the water tank's pickup. The less residual water is in your tank and bilge, the less antifreeze you'll need to protect the systems.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
Go to Top of Page

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4865 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2021 :  07:43:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Referring back to your original questions, for winter boat covering, some folks do shrink wrap. But that’s largely single-use and next spring you have to dispose of all that sheeting.
I’ve seen some really nice canvas-type covers made by manufacture Fairclough. I believe they take measurements of your boat and provide a custom-made cover. I’m not sure whether they also provide a metal, wood or plastic underframe to hold it up
I use a silver-heavy-duty tarp to cover my cockpit and cabin up to and just in front of the mast. Underneath I use about 11 1” pvc pipes bent over my boom and tied down to the gunwales. I add a 10ft 1x3 to extend my boom to the rear pulpit of the boat. I have a wooden vertical stand to support the end of the 1x3 that’s lashed to the stern pulpit.
Some years I’ve added a separate tarp to the foredeck, but since I keep my solar panel there all winter, I don’t cover it completely.
Not perfect but it does the job pretty well.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Go to Top of Page

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5627 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2021 :  09:30:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some manufacturers of custom covers provide a frame to support it, but most covers by far are designed to be used with the mast up. Actually, if you can keep your mast up in the winter, you can get by without a custom cover.

When the mast is up and the boom is in place, you can drape a large, heavy duty tarp over the boom, and over the lifelines, and it will cover the boat from the mast to the end of the boom. It will be steep enough to shed snow. To cover the bow, clip one end of your whisker pole to the pad eye on the mast, and rest the other end on the bow pulpit. If you don't have a whisker pole, buy a telescoping paint roller pole. Drape a smaller tarp over that pole. It too will shed snow. Raise the trailer tongue with the jack so that any water that gets in the cockpit drains out the scuppers.

If you want to cover the transom of the boat, you can attach a tarp to the end of the boom and drape it to cover the transom.

I tried different methods for tensioning the tarps, including using water or sand filled jugs, but it's difficult to find that many jugs, and to store them from year-to-year. A friend used tent stakes pounded into the ground. They were cheap to buy, easy to use and easy to store in a small box each year. You should place them under the boat, and not out to the side where they might trip someone walking through the marina.

If you can store the boat with the mast raised, it greatly simplifies the problem of covering it.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 10/31/2021 09:42:01
Go to Top of Page

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2264 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2021 :  10:01:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby
...Raise the trailer tongue with the jack so that any water that gets in the cockpit drains out the scuppers...


The C250 requires special care. It should be stored perfectly level, not bow high. The gutters around the hatch over the A-berth are designed to drain FORWARD into the anchor locker. If you store the boat bow-high, that water will accumulate in the aft end of the hatch, where it will ultimately seep through the weatherstripping into the berth.

When storing the boat, place a level on the cabin sole and adjust the bow height to have it perfectly level. Only then will the front hatch drain forward while the cockpit sole and companionway hatch drain aft. There is very little margin for error on this. After doing this, place the level on the cockpit floor, companionway hatch, and front hatch to make sure they're draining in the proper directions.

Yes, a cover will reduce the amount of water that enters, but it's not perfect.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/31/2021 10:11:41
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Association Forum © since 1999 Catalina Capri 25s International Association Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06
Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.