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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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SL has two new batteries

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/26/2009 : 20:44:36

I bought a couple of Optima D34M's at Costco a couple of weeks ago, along with some 2 gauge cables & battery trays. For the time being I've mounted them in the back where the original battery was but I eventually plan to move them to the bow.

I gathered up all the necessary bits, but also made sure I had my Dremel, drills, extra batteries, tools I didn't think I'd need but thought I might possibly use all in my canvas, go to the boat bag. I got the batteries on my little folding cart & bungeed everything together. I headed down to the dock, noting that it was high tide which meant I wouldn't have to grunt 100+ lbs of gear down a steep ramp. This was going to be an easy day...

I stopped along the way to pump up my Avon which was looking a bit forlorn on it's rack. I'd brought my little air pump to do this, and I had plenty of power to drive it, soooo. That went well, things were looking good so far. This should have been a warning...

We never even made it to the boat before things began to go awry. As I turned my cart onto my finger pier, Lola (my chocolate lab), who was trailing a bit behind me, tripped on my neighbor's shorepower cable & went into the water. Great. I dead lifted her out of the drink and she wasn't hurt, so that was a good thing, but dead lifting an 85lb dog out of the water was strike one against my shoulder. I got her up on to the boat (another not quite deadlift of 85lbs), and did the 3rd dead lift of the batteries for the day, moving them up onto the boat, the first two were into & out of the truck of the car. Then the fourth lift, down into the cabin, then the fifth, out onto the aft berth.

To mount the batteries, last week I made a couple of aluminum L brackets to attach the trays to the original fiberglass tray that bolt to the trays, turning them into a single unit. While this worked really well, it was a real pain to install. It took me the better part of an hour just to install the trays, just because it was so fiddly to do. However once I was able to get the brackets up under the lip and a few bolts attached, things got much easier. However, getting all the nuts (16) & bolts (8) tight wasn't easy, heck, just getting the lock nuts on was a chore, there wasn't room to get my fingers in place, plus I'm working through the battery access hole, which I'm wider than, so I'm squeezed in in the first place, then the trays have about 9" high vertical bolts to attach the upper plates onto, that have to be in place, so now there are more impediments restricting my already restricted access. Grrr. My arms were shaking by the time it was over, and it'd just gotten started.

I moved the old battery out of the way, and had the two new ones staged on the aft berth mattress, next to me. I should have taken into account that extensive shoulder surgery a few years ago might make this a bit of a chore, but I had no idea what I was in for.

Moving the old battery wasn't too bad, I just had to drag it out of the old holder and onto the mattress. However, moving the two new batteries (45lbs each) into the new trays was a bit of a trick, since I was fighting gravity and my arms were already complaining from the previous work. I got those in place, and the trays tightened down, so nothing can move. Now comes the real fun.

The two cables connecting the batteries I'd spent a fair amount of time test fitting in my garage, so they'd be a piece of cake to install inside the battery compartment. Well, the best laid plans...

For some reason, the two cables connecting the positive sides would not tighten down, and nothing I did seemed to want to help. I got the negatives down and tightened up immediately and never had to touch them again, but those positive ones I'd spend the rest of the afternoon on. I must have pulled them off 5-6 times to clean the dielectric grease off of them & the posts, expand them, tighten the bolts, loosen the bolts, beat them onto the posts (I know you're not supposed to do this, but I was out of ideas). Whoever came up with the tapered fit should be shot. Anyway, after probably 90 minutes of screwing around with the positive cable I was finally able to get it down tight. I rarely swear when I'm working on something, even when I'm upset with it, but this wasn't the case today, the air in the back of the boat was positively blue, using my best language learned in the USN.

By the time it was over with, my arms were so painful that I couldn't lift my right arm (still hurts hours later, thank god for Tylenol & Aleve). It was a real grunt to get all the tools & the old battery packed up, out of the boat, up the ramp (now low tide, so it was steep), and then into the trunk of the car, then make the 40 minute drive home.

I was never so glad to get home, and Rita had made a fabulous BBQ chicken dinner with potato salad. Yum!

I'll post pictures later. I didn't take any as I worked, there was too much sweat flying & swearing going on, but I did take pictures of the finished product, but the camera's still out in the car and I'm currently too lazy to go get it. It sucks getting old.

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2009 : 21:24:50

David, replaced my 2 batteries first of the year. I had a bum shoulder as well but still did the job. It was a real pain lifting and placing them in the holders. I know how you feel. Agree, it truly sucks to get old.
I had only a ten minute ride to home but didn't get any fabulous BBQ or anything that I can think of. Just a cold one.
Last week I spent several hours just washing PiSeas II down. After I got done, I was exhausted. I am thinking about hiring one of those guys who washes everyone else's boat in my marina. Did I tell you it sucks getting old!
Steve A

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2009 : 23:22:52

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Did I tell you it sucks getting old!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well, thankfully OTC drugs knock down the pain, add a couple of cocktails and it's pretty tolerable. It ought to be interesting tomorrow, my shoulder's still screaming at me, right along the big Frankenstein scar where they opened it up for the surgery. Hopefully I didn't do any damage. My experience has been I can hurt it like this, and it'll hurt for about three days, but no real damage has been done. We'll see.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2009 : 13:01:13

Here are a few pictures, wish I'd taken better ones, but at the time I just wanted to be done & go home, so I snapped these quickly and never looked at them before now.

In this last one you can sort of see the recalcitrant positive terminal on the back right and the hit marks where I tried to persuade it onto it's terminal.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2009 : 13:40:15

David,

Very nice installation! Looks like it was worth the frustration.

I assume the terminal in the foreground is a ground wire?

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2009 : 14:14:29

Yes, the heavy gauge wire in the foreground is the negative cable joining the batteries together, and the positive is in the background with the abuse marks on either end. I opted to not separate them into two banks since there's no real need, plus I didn't want to split the charging circuits, etc. I deliberately bought the two batteries at the same time so I didn't end up in a situation where one of them was being drawn down by the other because it was older.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2009 : 16:25:27

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Agree, it truly sucks to get old. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, but it beats the alternative.

Lifting batteries is a b*tch. I put them on a towel and slide them as much as possible rather than lifting.

Nice installation.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5417 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2009 : 18:22:17

David
Perennial worry wart here....

Did you say that you have permanently connected both negative terminals together, and permanently connected both positives together? While I use only a single battery and don't have practical experience with two in parallel, in your case, even while the two batteries are "identical", it would seem that some kind of mismatch could still occur, whether near term or long term.

While Don Casey says that it is ok to use this approach with identical batteries, it seems to me that you should have some method for disconnecting the two positive posts, whether for preserving one battery while using the other or for supplying essential versus non-essential appliances with power.

Most people who have two batteries also install an A-B-Both switch. You can charge the batteries in tandem, or one at a time, depending on how you manage it. Obviously, it's more of a chore to manage both independently, but something tells me that somewhere along the line you might want to be able to separate the two.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2009 : 20:25:14

Bruce,
They're not permanently attached, I can still remove the cables that connect them. What I've done is create a larger battery by putting two together in parallel, increasing the number of available amp-hours. Because they're identical and new, I reduce the chances of problems due to mismatches. It's not eliminated, but greatly reduced. Since I don't make any distinction between essential vs non essential on the boat, I don't think I've created problems for myself, just added capacity. Of course I may end up eating these words, but I don't think so. I considered a two bank system, but didn't see any advantage, I don't need the batteries to start the engine (although I do start it electrically half the time, I deliberately pull start it the other half, and Rita gets to electric start about 85% of the time, I still make her pull start it occasionally so she knows how). Everything else has some sort of backup, I have hand held VHF, GPS, and spot lights (to illuminate my sails if necessary), as well as (non-ship's) battery powered LED lights for the interior. I can't power my running lights with any backup system, but that's no different than if I had a single battery that crapped out on me.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2009 : 00:06:39

A larger battery bank combined together will last longer than two separate batteries given the same daily use. This is based on the fact that the percentage of discharge of the combined larger bank is lower. One larger bank on a C25 makes a lot of sense.

BTW, all of us larger boats combine batteries into large "house banks" for our power, reserving a small separate emergency bank in case something goes wrong with the house bank. The latest, and I think best idea, is to use the house bank for everything, and keep the reserve bank for just that, and NOT use it as a "start" bank.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2009 : 09:28:08

Try Advil and not Tylenol.

http://www.vhl.org/newsletter/vhl1996/96bjtyle.php

Advil works great, even better.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2009 : 09:29:19

And those Batteries rock! Great job, and thanks for sharing.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2009 : 13:05:01

Actually I combine them, usually Aleve & Tylenol, or Advil & Tylenol, both are easily combined and provide a synergistic effect. My doctors and pharmacists have both suggested this. And I don't buy any actual name brands, almost always the Costco Kirkland brands of naproxen sodium (Aleve), acetaminophen (Tylenol) & ibuprofen (Advil). I keep one each of the giant bottles in our first aid kits, as well as upstairs & downstairs medicine cabinets. Actually I keep a pretty well stocked pharmacopoeia in all those places.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2009 : 18:08:03

I've been combining two AGMs in parallel for years. Works great and is simple.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2009 : 19:54:04

A couple of better pictures showing the hold down mechanism a bit better:

And a bit of a closeup of the aluminum angle & bolts:

And the good news is, now I have about 13+ volts under load instead of 11 or so.

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Jefffriday
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2009 : 20:04:02

Very nice install, You sure you want to move them to the bow? they look very happy where they are.

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