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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Gudgeon bolts

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5239 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/04/2009 : 18:50:43

The lower gudgeon is supposed to have three screws holding it in place. One is missing and the other two are loose. I was really concerned that the lower gudgeon would fall out, and I'd lose it overboard.

I tried tightening the center screw, but it was jammed, the right one was loose, but spun around. The left screw was missing, and when I tried to replace it, it would not "catch" on anything inside the hole.

Am I "screwed"?

Is there any way to bolt down the gudgeon without making "through holes"?

I'm concerned that because the lower gudgeon is below the water line while sailing, that 'through holes' could potentially cause a leak into the boat.

Maybe I can surface mount some nuts somehow ????

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

michaelj
Navigator

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132 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2009 : 04:01:05

I recently replaced my upper and lower gudgeons and, although it is a pain, it is doable. In your case I would recommend that you drill out all of the screws that are left. Catalina Direct sells a gudgeon replacement kit which has all of the hardware. One thing to consider is that the bushings in your present gudgeons are going to wear out and you cannot replace them. You might consider replacing the whole gudgeon. When I did it I made two backing plates, one of 3/16" plywood and one of about 1/8" aluminum. I predrilled holes for the bolts but I would not do this again, as alignment is tricky. Rather, I would mount he wooden backing plate with some marine tex, wait until it cures, and then drill the holes from the outside (with a battery powered, not corded drill needless to say).Then stick the bolts through, put some marking fluid like machinist's layout fluid on the ends of the bolts, and place the aluminum backing plate against those. Drill out the holes in the sluminum plate and you should be good to go.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2009 : 10:09:52

As I recall, the bolts go into small threaded bronze plates that are epoxied to the inside of the transom. The lower gudgeon can be accessed from inside the quarterberth--the upper one requires a hole and an inspection port to be installed (included in CD's kit, I believe). I would drill out the holes just a little (to remove any threads) and then chip or grind the areas round them flat inside. Then I'd install new bolts with washers and nylock nuts, maybe right on top of the plates. (I was thinking I'd already done that on Passage...

) With the bronze plates already there, I think an additional backer is more then you need, but that's your call. The gudgeons I had on Passage had no bushings--the new ones from CD do... but their "heavy duty" gudgeons make mounting the rudder tricky--the pintles have to line up very precisely or it won't mount. I tried the HD gudgeons and then went back to the "light-duty" (originals), which seem more than strong enough for that "floating rudder".

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/05/2009 11:27:53

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5239 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2009 : 17:30:44

Thanks for the info/advice.

At this point in the season, I will go ahead with a basic repair to keep it on the boat. Come fall, after they pull the boat, I will look to do a proper job.

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skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2009 : 05:22:04

Just leaving this be for the rest of the season may not be the best choice. The lower gudgeon is the one that takes the greatest amount of the force. Right now it sounds like you are running on one or one and a half mountings at best.
One way or another you are going to need to drill out a hole and through bolt it. If there is a backing plate inside great and your final job is easier. But, using the hole that is missing a bolt/screw altogether, finish the hole through the transom - the existing hole will guide you. Put a washer on it and a nut inside. You will have provided yourself a hole you will need to do anyways and perhaps saved your rudder.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5239 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2009 : 18:23:54

After thinking about it a little more, I decided I had to complete a proper repair FAST! She sits there in the current and wakes all day getting bopped around, and that's gotta take its toll.

I have a "tee end" slip, so there's no dock next to the transom. I got in my kayak and tried the screws with a "bigger screwdriver" (same principle as a bigger hammer).

The port bolt was gone, and I twisted the starboard bolt and I got a little shortie to snap off. It looked perfect in all respects, except it had snapped in two parts.

So I climbed down into the end of the quarterberth and I spotted the bronze backing plate that Dave Bristle mentioned. The bolts and nuts were as tight as could be. I gave them a twist and out they came, port bolt, starboard bolt, but the middle one held (thank the gods!)

I once again returned to the kayak and screwed in the port and starboard bolts. This time they slid right in. So I snugged them down, then got back inside the quarterberth and put a split washer and a regular nut onto the bolt. Then, I got some nylon - nylock nuts and put them on to lock the standard nuts in place.

Lastly, I gave that middle bolt a big tweak and SNAP! Off that came with a considerable effort. I replaced that one too, in the same way.

So now <i>Passage's</i> rudder is back secure and ready for some more sailing. I plan on taking her out tomorrow morning for a short "test drive".

Now all I have to do is replace the Honda gas connection and find and fix the short in the cabin lights! They worked on Thursday night, but on Friday, no dice. Fuse blew. Replaced the fuse, it blew again. Not sure where the problem lies. That's a different problem for another day.

Edited by - on

michaelj
Navigator

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132 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2009 : 03:57:53

Bruce, you are one lucky guy. The nuts on my backing plates were covered with about 1/4" of epoxy which took half a day to grind down to the point that I could get a socket to fit. I'm glad that it was easier for you, and that it all worked out. I think you'll sleep a lot better with new gudgeons on your boat.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5239 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2009 : 09:41:35

Wow, your experience sounds like a real pain in the neck.

I think Dave Bristle may have gone through something like that when he owned <i>Passage</i>. For me, I just had to figure out what I was looking at and apply elbow grease both out in my kayak behind the transom, and inside the rear end of the quarterberth.

I do sleep a whole lot better now, because it's more or less like driving your car down the road and you're not sure whether your tie rod or rack/pinion is connected to the steering wheel.

Edited by - on

Dave Otey
Navigator

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USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2009 : 18:09:25

Just a note on the sequence of tasks. If one decides to replace the original machine screws for the bottom gudgeon with through bolts, I suggest you drill one hole at a time and replace with a through bolt before moving to the second and third machine screws. Some of the bronze backing plates are not glassed in securely and one could risk pushing the backing plate out of the glassed in position. (experience).

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.