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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Stuck-on-deck clutch

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dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/26/2017 : 23:51:27

Can you tell yet I am doing spring boat chores? LOL!

At the end of last season, I had a drip coming from a nut below a clutch. Yesterday I removed the bolts (easy) and was unable to budge the clutch from the deck. I even tapped on a scraper at the deck/clutch joint hoping to wedge it under and break the seal, but nothing happened.

Now what?!?

What sealant should I use to re-bed so this doesn't happen again in the future?

What should I use to re-bed the mast step? (It came off fairly easily.)

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2017 : 03:59:01

if the clutch was put on with 5200, there is a remover now. maybe that will weaken the bond.

I'm a convert of butyl tape. this forum and other sources convinced me.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2017 : 04:35:04

I second butyl tape.

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2017 : 05:27:32

Sounds like another case of 5200 used in the wrong application. You could try getting a length of picture frame wire under a corner and pulling it underneath with a sawing action to cut it loose. Attach two blocks to the ends of the wire for handles.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2017 : 07:02:31

If it's 5200, and it sounds like it, I'd be very careful with any solvent that claims to dissolve it. Test it on your gelcoat in some obscure location to make sure it doesn't dissolve that, too. Picture wire might be a little thick--I might suggest a guitar string. A putty knife or similar will likely cause the removal of some gelcoat from the laminate--I speak from experience.

Just one more example of why a boat builder's license and background check should be required to purchase 5200! It's for hull-deck and keel-hull joints ONLY.

(...although the builder of my current boat misused it to bed things.

)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/27/2017 07:04:49

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2017 : 09:01:00

here is the link for a test of the debonder. try it out and tell us all how it worked!

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

dalelargent
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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2017 : 09:39:25

Bummer :( I am happy to know about the solvent, though.

I also read elsewhere about heating a tool (scraper) and trying thst.

Either way, I an unsure how I will get the solvent/tool in contact with the 5200. I suppose I can sort of spray/drip the stuff down through the clutch???

Butyl tape it is for my re-bedding...

How would I apply it? A strip around the base and then a patch around/over the bolt holes?

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2017 : 09:43:08

OH! And I just re-read the wire cutting idea. I have a guitar string perfect for the job!

Perhaps I can get it off with the wire, then clean with the solvent.

Thanks all...I will keep you posted on results. Hope to complete this one by the weekend. Want to launch in 11 days!

Dale

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2017 : 09:59:38

A follow-up question:

My local rv/marine store (a very modest store), offers this:

Dicor Corp BT-1834-1 1/8" x 3/4" x 40' Butyl Tape for $10.

West Marine wants $25 for a 20' roll of INCOM
Butyl Caulking Tape.

That's 5x more expensive!

Any idea if the local value is good, or if I should spring for the more expensive due to being better?

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2017 : 12:12:24

you can also use a combination of things along with the wire. 5200 does not like heat. as others have noted a debonding agent will help and is a must IMHO. Make up a series of wood shims or by a pack at HD, Use a heat gun or hair drier to warm the area up. the idea with heat is to heat it to a temp that is below the point of burning anything but more than enough to soften the 5200. it looses its strength and bond as it warms.

use a razor to cut the edge of the joint, spray generous amounts of the debonding into the crack and follow this up with a very thin wooden wedge with a hammer. very slowly insert more wedges and de-bonder evenly around the permiter of the clutch to break the initial bond. once that is broken use the heat to soften the balance of the 5200 and mechanically/more wedges and debonder pull the clutch off. it will take lots of patience but it will work. De-bonder, heat and wedges. As Dave said if you just try to pull it off you probably will take the gel coat with it. You can use the Butyl tape to re-bed the clutch or a tube of Life Seal caulk. Life Seal is made for bedding plastic to fiberglass. Other caulks will slowly eat the plastic and eventually will fail. Drip, drip, drip. patience is the key.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 04/27/2017 12:16:06

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2017 : 21:26:26

Scott referred to Life Seal (good stuff) and showed a tube of Life Caulk (also good, but not compatible with plastics). They do look alike... Life caulk is polysulfide, while Life Seal is a combination of silicone and polyurethane that somehow avoids the downsides of both. I use Life Caulk for bedding anything that isn't plastic, and Life Seal for plastic. Both create very flexible, long lasting "gaskets" that are mildly adhesive and easy to remove. I haven't used butyl tape, but from what I've heard from people who have, I tend to prefer a compound that sets up--or maybe I'm just stuck in my ways.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2017 : 22:44:32

Thank you, Dave. Without that clarification, I could have messed that up.

It is also my instinct to use a caulk-like substance. But, I think I will try the butyl...it does seem easy to change my mind later if I am unsatisfied (sounds like people are quite happy with it, though).

Anyone have recommendations on the local (cheaper and immediately available) or West Marine butyl tape? (see earlier post)

Dave, did you say "stuck in your ways"? Hah! Nice pun there :)

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2017 : 03:45:11

Good eye Dave, Yes, my mistake on lifting a photo.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2017 : 03:47:00

Here is a good writeup on butyl tape. The great part is that it remains flexible for years, while other sealants harden.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2017 : 17:15:13

The good thing is that you can retighten butyl, the bad is that you must retighten since it is really a very viscous fluid. Polysulfide stays flexible for decades. They both do the job well, bedding removable hardware, so pick your poison.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2017 : 17:34:32

Just go sailing in 15 - 20 mph winds with a 150 and crank in the sheet real tight on a beam reach. Pretty sure it will come off!

If not. get the boat in a dangerous situation where you really, really need that winch to perform properly. Guaranteed to come loose every time.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2017 : 08:01:21

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

Just go sailing in 15 - 20 mph winds with a 150 and crank in the sheet real tight on a beam reach...

...except it's a rope clutch--probably for some things like a halyard, reefing line, etc.--not a sheet. (But the principle of your technique has some validity.

)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/29/2017 08:02:29

dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2017 : 21:47:21

True that, Dave. Main halyard and vang...

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

dalelargent
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2017 : 23:11:20

I am back from busy work schedules and weekends at the lake sailing. Finally have time to catch-up with the forum.

Here is a little update: I realized just before trying to remove the clutch using heat, etc., that I was pretty certain the leak was coming from one both hole, and i had been able to remove all four bolts.

So, I decided to leave the clutch alone and wrap butyl tape around the heads of the bolts and re-insert.

While I was at it, I also removed/cleaned the mast step and used butyl to rebed.

The boat has been in the water for 3 weeks now, and went through 10 days of lousy weather including rain every day and 1-2" of snow for 4 days straight.

When I checked on her Saturday she was dry! YES!

So I went sailing :)

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2017 : 06:54:33

Your discovery leads to a suggestion for anyone bedding deck hardware: After applying the caulk or tape and pushing the bolts through the holes, tighten the nuts from below while holding the bolt heads so they don't turn. This way the bedding material will squeeze in around the bolt, right into the threads and set up, preventing water from seeping down the bolt. Turning the bolts can break that seal.

Also, with caulk, tighten lightly at first, let the caulk set up, and then crank down the nuts to compress the "gasket" without turning the bolts. (I'm not talking about butyl tape here since it doesn't "set up.")

Then there's the whole topic of "overdrill/fill/re-drill" which has been discussed here over the years...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/25/2017 06:55:47

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