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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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mast stepping system

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kpearl
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/26/2003 : 22:26:51

I have a C-25 and am interested in a system which can assist in stepping the mast without needing a "gorilla" or two each time I put up the mast or take it down. I know Catalina direct sells a telescoping pole but is there a way to winch it up ? Sure could use some help with this. All out of gorillas !! Kpearl

kpearl

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2003 : 23:12:06

Hi Kevin,

Welcome to the group!

I built an A-frame that works like a charm ... here is a link to the basic idea in the Tech Tips section:

http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/bearsad1.html

I am relatively new to sailing, and this is the first sailboat I've ever owned. I have never had anyone help me step the mast or take it down ... I do it by myself all the time.

In a recent thread about stepping the mast, there were comments about how unwieldy the mast becomes when you've got it about a third of the way up. Take a look at this photo that I took about three weeks ago when I was stepping the mast after completing a bunch of mast-related projects:

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3db07b3127cce88cd551d395c0000001610" border=0>

NO ONE is holding the mast ... I'm running around all over the dock taking pictures while the mast stays put. It is very easy to do a slow, controlled raising of the mast ... you can also stop in the middle of the process and untangle shrouds or other rigging ... it's great!

I can't say enough good stuff about this system ... it is one of the best things I've built for my boat. I took a bunch of other photos that day, so if you've got any questions, I've probably got photos that will help answer them.

'Hope that helps ... let me know if you'd like any more details.

Good luck!

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2003 : 03:01:28

Buzz do you have pictures of how the A frame is attached to the chain plates. I just don't quite get this part of the set up. Did you use rigid conduit as well? Is it up to the compressive loads imposed on it?
I like how it gives the whole process some stability and it seems easy enough to fabricate. I'm not sure I want to carry it around though since I trailer sail.

I've been planning to use the boom mounted to the front of the mast as a gin pole but am not commited.

Todd Hansen
Fior Gra'
San Luis Obispo, CA

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2003 : 09:33:24

hey buzz
couple of questions

explain what type of conduit and the diameter.

is the gas pipe 1 inch in diameter inside?

did you fasten the frame to the forward lowers or the center upper stays?

thanks
dave holtgrave
5722
sk/tr
sailing carlyle lake in southern illinois

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2003 : 09:33:29

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2003 : 09:55:46

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Buzz do you have pictures of how the A frame is attached to the chain plates. I just don't quite get this part of the set up. Did you use rigid conduit as well? Is it up to the compressive loads imposed on it?
Todd Hansen
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Todd & Dave,

The A-frame attaches to the two forward lower shroud chainplates. There is a 2-inch nipple attached to each end of the A-frame ... the nipples are placed over the chainplates ... a bolt goes through the nipple and the eye in the chainplate to hold it in place, so the A-frame is free to pivot at each nipple. Here is a photo from the Tech Tips that shows the nipples and the attachment points:

<img src="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/bearsad6.jpg" border=0>

The upper shrouds and the aft lower shrouds are attached to their respective chain plates before you begin to raise the mast. You can see that the A-frame is attached to the forward lower shroud chainplate at the left edge of this photo:

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3db09b3127cce88f829568f710000001610" border=0>

As for the conduit ... it is rigid ... each leg is 10 feet long and 1 inch in diameter. I used a sledge hammer to flatten the ends so I could drill holes for the bolts, and so I could bend it into the proper shape.

As for the loads on the A-frame ... it seems like the loads on the A-frame itself aren't that great ... as many times as I've used this system, I've never seen the A-frame bend or do anything that would indicate it is under any stress. I'm no engineer, but it seems like the load is transferred to the chainplates and deck, and I've never seen any stress there either.

I hope that makes sense ... all this talk of nipples has me ... uh ... distracted <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - buzz maring on 05/28/2003 09:59:10

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2003 : 10:13:40

I'm not sure I want to carry it around though since I trailer sail. - Todd

'Sorry ... I forgot to answer this one.

When I trailer my boat, I leave the A-frame attached to the shroud chainplates, and it rests flat on the deck. When it comes time to step the mast, the A-frame is already in place ... all I have to do is set the mast base in the tabernacle, attach the jib halyard to the A-frame and step the mast. After you've got the mast raised, just detach the A-frame and leave it with your trailer.

'Hope that helps.

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2003 : 19:26:24

Hi folks,

I made an A-frame out of two 2 x 4's. I drilled holes in the top and placed an eye bolt through to hook the jib halyard, and the end of a boom vang. On the bottom I drilled a one inch hole and put a small piece of rope through. My middle chainplates have two holes so I just tie off the bottom of the 2 x 4's. I also curved the bottome of the 2 x 4's with a sabre saw so the point wouldn't dig into the deck. I used a cheap Home depot long rope in the old boom vang and wound it up on one of my cabin top winches. Presto, a mast raising system. I put it all together quickly. I plan on re-doing the system as the pressure treated 2 x 4's are really heavy, and plan on getting a couple of cedar ones as they are light.
Not as elegant as the conduit, but it works
Hope this helps.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

NuNees
Navigator

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USA
125 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2003 : 11:52:54

Dave Holtgrave;
I'd like to see this system in action.
Have you built a copy of Buzz Marring's sustem?
Do you use something else?

I have a slip at West Access, D6...if you can let me know the next time you plan to step the masst...I'd like to lend a hand.

Thank you,

bjaworowski@att.net H
bjaworowski@erac.com O

Bill jaworowski,
Moonbeams.
C25 SK/SR #4953
Sailing Lake Carlyle, IL.

Edited by - on

Earl Landers
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2003 : 19:47:20

Buzz,
I am really curious, when your mast is about 15 to 20 degrees above horizontal, and none of the shrouds are tight yet, what keeps your mast from swinging away from the center line of the boat(assume a strong side wind)? I have doubts that the tabernacle is strong enough to prevent swing when there is a 28 foot lever trying to twist it off the cabin roof. I use a gin pole with a 1/4 inch line looped over the spreaders to prevent/limit the swing. Once the mast is up, just pull the 1/4 inch line down.

Earl Landers
'83 C25 SR/SK
"Gentle Spirit"
http://home.bak.rr.com/edlgs

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2003 : 23:45:14

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Buzz,
I am really curious, when your mast is about 15 to 20 degrees above horizontal, and none of the shrouds are tight yet, what keeps your mast from swinging away from the center line of the boat(assume a strong side wind)? I have doubts that the tabernacle is strong enough to prevent swing when there is a 28 foot lever trying to twist it off the cabin roof. I use a gin pole with a 1/4 inch line looped over the spreaders to prevent/limit the swing. Once the mast is up, just pull the 1/4 inch line down. - Earl Landers
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Earl,

I've never had any problems with the wind catching the mast. I'm no engineer, but it seems like it would have to be blowing really hard for the wind to exert a lot of force on such a small profile ... <img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

Anyway, while the aft lower shrouds are really loose (and the forward lowers aren't even attached), the two upper shrouds don't have a lot of slack in them ... I suppose they offer at least some safety from having the mast sway to one side or the other, and the tabernacle does the rest.

I can't quite visualize how you use the 1/4" line to limit the swing. Nevertheless, if it works to make things safer it's worth considering.

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 10:06:03

"I am really curious, when your mast is about 15 to 20 degrees above horizontal, and none of the shrouds are tight yet, what keeps your mast from swinging away from the center line of the boat"

I mounted two pad-eyes out on the cabintop awthartship of the mast base. These form anchors for temporary side-stays to stabilize the mast when raising.

I use two adjustable motorcycle tie-downs to run from the pad-eyes to the spinnaker ring fitting on the mast... but most anything would work.

I have a 'mast up' stern crutch that gets the mast to about a 30 degree angle. Forestay is tied to 5/16" mast raising line, looped thru a snatch block attached to the bow fitting and looped back to the cabintop winch. Up she goes.

IMHO in terms of 'security' the temporary side stays are the way to go... especially when raising the mast single-handed. With two competent people the mast goes up pretty quick and I don't need them.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2003 : 04:20:51

I fixed up the conduat a frame last week. I lowered the mast at the lake drove up to Hunington Lake, Beautiful. Raised the mast by myself, while all the small boats around me used 2 to 5 people to do the same thing. Lowered it took it home and raised it again yesterday, again all by myself. I made a mast up last year, mine is kind of flimsy but works. With the A frame I just raise the mast step half way and it is much more secure and since I use the winch on the cabin top no big deal. Yesterday, remember this was only the 2nd time using the frame I got out of the truck and was heading to the water to drop the boat in an hour. The hardest part is getting the shrouds and stays straightned out. Oh yesterday I was heading to the water at 6:30, start time for the race. I had the boat in the water and ready to go at 7. I wasn't at the head of the pack, but I wasn't the last boat either. If you wern't paying attention we caught up with the pack after being 3o min late.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2003 : 10:12:44

Way to go Matt! It is amazing how well this A-frame gizmo works ... once you've used it, it's hard to consider anything else ... 'glad someone cooked up this idea.

... yesterday I was heading to the water at 6:30, start time for the race. I had the boat in the water and ready to go at 7. I wasn't at the head of the pack, but I wasn't the last boat either. If you wern't paying attention we caught up with the pack after being 3o min late.

COOL! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2003 : 22:27:46

Buzz - Would it be possible for you to post two detail photos of the top of your A-frame and the connection to the forward lower shroud chainplates? I am all psyched to build and try this system. Since I am rarely able to come up with a dependable helper, I usually have the boatyard step and unstep the mast. They just raised the cost this year to $8.50 a foot!

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2003 : 11:11:02

Buzz - Would it be possible for you to post two detail photos of the top of your A-frame and the connection to the forward lower shroud chainplates? I am all psyched to build and try this system. Since I am rarely able to come up with a dependable helper, I usually have the boatyard step and unstep the mast. They just raised the cost this year to $8.50 a foot! - David E.

Hi David,

Woah! At a cost of $8.50 a foot, I can see why you are eager to build one of these!

Here is a photo of the very top of the A-frame:

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d910b3127cce8b8920c712f40000001610" border=0>

I don't have any good close-ups of the attachment point to the forward lower chainplates ... 'sorry ... maybe this shot will help (especially if you look at the other photo above and the hand-drawn diagram):

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d910b3127cce8b892049127a0000001610" border=0>

Here is a shot of the attachment at the bow:

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d910b3127cce8b89238fd3150000001610" border=0>

'Hope that helps ... let me know if you've got any more questions ... good luck!

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

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