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Finally: a workable TR bimini

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/18/2004 : 19:37:04

Here are pics and specs for the bimini system I've installed on "Even Chance" (1985 SKTR # 5050):

1. I moved the mainsheet to the forward end of the cockpit by installing a 2x4 piece of teak just aft of the companionway threshold, and by bolting a Harken small boat traveler to the top of the teak. The traveler has less travel than the one mounted on the pushpit, but not a lot. Mounting the traveler at the threshold level makes companionway egress pretty easy. Generally, because the car is on one side of the cockpit or the other, it's simple to get through the hatch.

I also decided not to mount the traveler the full width of the cockpit, because Vicki likes to sit with her back against the bulkhead.

The mainsheet is attached to a bail on the boom. The bail is pretty much directly over the traveler when the boom is centered. Even when the boom is far out to the side, the mainsheet line runs fair over lifelines and avoids the cabin.

2. The bimini is a stock Taylor from West Marine, # 62134: 36" high by 4' long by 80" wide. Had I ordered the 6' model I would have had to cut a slot for the backstay. The bimini hinges were TIG welded to genoa track sliders.

3. All this required a new mainsail, one with a shorter luff (and leech) than the stock C25TR sail. I discovered that the Capri 25 sail is exactly the right dimensions, and ordered one from Doyle sailmakers, via catalinaowners.com. After many discussions, I ordered a loose foot and two full battens at the top. I ordered one reef, but they threw in a second for free. It's stiff and beautiful and actually flakes inside the lazyjacks!

With the sail hoisted, the boom centered, and the mainsheet hardened, there's about four inches clearance between the boom and the bimini. I can sit comfortably under the bimini with headroom to spare (I'm 6'3"), and there's plenty of room between the front of the bimini and the cabin trunk to easily go on deck. No, the bimini doesn't cover the entire cockpit, but with the genoa sliders I can move it fore and aft as needed. When stowed, it lays against the backstay out of the way.

Life is full of compromises, but these look like they're going to work.

New traveler aft of the companionway threshold:

Mid-boom mainsheet:

Hinges welded to genoa track slides (welding discolors the stainless):

Bimini from overhead, showing the boom clearance:

Vicki under the bimini:

Another bimini shot:

Bimini stowed against the backstay:

It was blowing hard this afternoon with the fetch straight down the Rappahannock, so we anchored in the creek and had lunch. Maybe we get to raise the main for Father's Day!

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 06/20/2004 20:31:57

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2004 : 21:14:09

Good job, Brooke! I suspect that the effect of your new traveler is better than the slightly longer one at the transom, given the shorter swing at mid-boom, and given the more vertical (fore/aft) purchase, from what you described. I suspect a few TR folks are taking notes!

But the best part is the SHELTER!

I am about to install mine--first I want to rig the topping lift so I can control it from a clutch, which will allow me to maximize the bimini height for when the main is furled (by raising the boom slightly before dropping the sail). My mainsheet will remain aft, and the 6' bimini will partially cover the companionway. Access forward, as discussed here many times, will be the final piece of the puzzle, but I don't have much need to go forward.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2004 : 03:03:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brooke Willson
 And as one of the storms moved through Urbanna, I sat dry under the bimini and enjoyed it all.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Brooke - I bought my '89 WK/TR Mk. IV just down the road from Urbanna, at Norton's in Deltaville! Did you see the pics and trip report I posted on the cross-country drive to pick up the boat? 6100 miles round trip, perhaps the longest-ever Catalina 25 delivery drive made by anyone other than professional boat movers! Deltaville seemed like a nice quiet little town, out there on the end of the peninsula. The Marine Surveyor I used was from Urbanna:
Peter W. Schacht Co.
P.O. Box 391
Urbanna, Virginia 23175

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2004 : 08:46:27

Yes, Larry. I even commented in that posting, as I remember. Urbanna is much more of a real town, as opposed to Deltaville. Deltaville has the boat stores and more marinas, but Urbanna has the restaurants and shops, all within walking distance of the water. Also, because we live in Richmond, Urbanna is a smidge closer.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 06/19/2004 08:47:52

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2004 : 08:58:02

To whomever the website Powers May Be: I'd certainly consent to this being put in the Tech Tips -- I looked on that page for how to do it, but didn't see how.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2004 : 09:01:42

Hi Brooke,

Very nice work on the traveller and the bimini! The best method of submission for tech tips is to email your instructions/story and photos to Spike.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2004 : 10:18:00

Mid-boom mainsheet:

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Brooke,

I've been interested in moving my traveler to this location but have been reluctant to do so because of the risk to scraping shin bones. I see you reduced that risk by lowering the traveler - good thinking! Let us know it works compared to the factory location. How did you fasten the teak block that the travel sits on? My wife wants to know what color nail polish Vicki has on her toes.

Edited by - on

NuNees
Navigator

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USA
125 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2004 : 10:21:02

Great illustrations!
I have been fiddeling with such aan idea as this since I bought the boat. The traveler is the last piece of the puzzel for me. I doubt I will execute this until fall haulout.
I might suggest that you check with Spike about resizing this post so that is more 'printer friendly'.
Thans for sharing you work ... well done.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2004 : 20:04:20

The teak block is secured by 3/8 x 3 lag screws, two on each side, drilled from the quarterberth and just behind the sink faucet. I also put 5200 on the ends of the teak.

I like the mainsheet arrangement SO much more than the original design. No clotheslining; mainsheet and traveler lines well separated from the tiller, making it infinitely easier to singlehand; I can sit forward of the tiller, giving me more leverage and not having to worry about swing space for the tiller; no conflict between the tillerpilot and control lines . . . it's simply better in every way (IMHO). With the original setup, I was always cross handed: tiller and lines were all aft. Now the tiller is aft and the lines are forward (one hand for the tiller, the other for the mainsheet).

As for checking sail trim from under the bimini, I learned today I can easily look from either behind or before the bimini at the telltales and windex, depending on where other folks are sitting. It was also absolutely no sweat to go forward on deck; to go through the companionway, or even to sit on the pushpit and look around.

And the new Doyle mainsail, flown Father's Day for the first time, is just gorgeous.

Vicki says the nail polish is "Rose Fantasy," which she thinks would also be a good name for a boat. Maybe her next husband. . .

I'll work on downsizing the images.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 07/01/2004 07:16:24

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2004 : 21:40:19

Brooke: Info for a friend with a TR: How much did the Capri sail raise your boom?

Also, with that new sheeting, did you think about taking a foot or so off the end of the boom? I guess with the bimini up, it doesn't matter...

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2004 : 22:13:00

Brooke,

I just noticed the ratio on the mainsheet - adequate in your opinion for the new traveler position?

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roberoo
Navigator

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USA
182 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2004 : 22:23:21

I like this. What would the major issues/changes be for a standard rig? It seems pretty straight forward to me.

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 06:29:37

Dave: absolutely not. Unnecessary, and I am using the full length for the clew tackle. In the pic above, I have the foot really loose because the winds were light yesterday. The foot is 9'6", same as the C25 main.

The Capri luff is 26.5', the C25TR is 27.8. My gooseneck now sits just below the widened slot in the kerf, and is held in place by the boom downhaul. I bought mastgates but haven't installed them yet. The gates are only really an issue when reefing -- the first sail slide is above the widened slot, and is held up by a stopper.

OJ: it's a little iffy. I don't have any problems hauling the sheet when close hauled, but the cleat isn't holding as well when really sheeted hard. I'm trying to decide whether that's a function of the new line (which I don't like as well as my old line) or not enough purchase. I'm going to test my old mainsheet line on it soon, and if that still slips a little I may go to 4:1 (fiddle at the top, fiddle with becket below).

Bob: I can't see any problems/issues.

Brooke

Edited by - on

skipn809
Navigator

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111 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 13:34:40

Looks nice Brooke.

I didn't like my traveler in front of the companionway because it interfered with entry (it sat on top of the seats), got in the way when leaning against the cabin, and didn't seem to make that much difference to me in performance since I don't race. It also kept me from moving the bimini forward to cover the companionway fully with the hatch top closed and sailing in the rain. I considered doing a cabin top mount, but find I am poppoing the top more than I used to, and the rear traveler works OK with the new bimini set up.

I too went with the track/bimini foot setup, but just drilled and bolted the feet (kept the plastic feet), and went cheap on the sail set up by adding a cringle about 14 inches up the leech, so I can lift the topping lift and sail with the bimini up. It worked great. Sail is as flat as it needs to be.

I had to cut 4 inches off the bow at the feet to keep the boom end as close to original height as possible, but it still gave me 5'10" of headroom. I didn't get around to installing the mast gates so I have to go forward to let 2 sail slides out with the use of a stop, but that is OK because I like to use a two reef line system rather than a single, so I'd be up there anyway.

I decided to use straps with D-rings and secure the tiedowns to the pulpit rail behind the hook opening, and in front of the stanchion on the life line (mine have swivels at the gates, so the lifelines don't sag.) This kept the straps out of the way for going forward. Now I can slide the bimini forward if I lift the boom more, so that the cabin top is covered with the hatch open when coved out, or back and stowed straight up when swimming, or useing the O/B. When it is open it is never in the way of the ladder, motor or BBQ grill.

Best of all it LOOKS right.

Too bad I sold the boat yesterday to a guy who wanted it more than I did. I put it in the water exactly a year ago, and have been working on it ever since. Probably will regret it. Time to start looking for another one.

So-- anybody need a Harken traveler with cars for a mid-boom setup?

Edited by - on

roberoo
Navigator

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USA
182 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 05:26:23

Hey Skipn809,

If you're serious, I am interested. I sent you an e-mail.

Bob

Edited by - on

Designwiz
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 12:39:36

Hi:
Looking at your Bimini it appears to be a 5 foot long model, is that correct? I ordered a Bimini from GMI in Canada and got the 5 foot long model as well. I will be mounting it on the tracks with a car but with a six inch horizontal extenion plate so I can keep it all inside the life lines and still be able to slide it forward. Woman at GMI said sometimes these work better mounted backwards...time will tell. Good luck..nice job!!!

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 13:18:22

Bruce, if you're asking me, it's a four foot bimini, as stated above in the description.

Brooke

Edited by - on

skipn809
Navigator

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111 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 14:33:02

For what it is worth, I fit a 6 foot GMI under my tall rig. No problem, unless you are using the mid-boom set up, then a 5 footer may work better.

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skipn809
Navigator

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111 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 14:36:54

Bob, it appears to be more substantial than Brooks. It is 54 inches and has a 4:1 purchase. I will try to forward a photo of one like it via e-mail.

Edited by - on

Brent
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2004 : 20:40:45

On my boat (83 T/R),at the point where you bolted the 2x4 piece of teak for the traveler, the hull appears to be made of two relativly thin layers. Did you fill this void with anything when you installed the lag bolts or was it solid in your boat. Or did you go completely through the outer layer and snug the bolt to the inner layer. The inner layer, being as thin as it feels, might have a hard time supporting the loads.

Brent

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2004 : 07:20:26

Brent, I had to go back and change a post, because I used lag screws instead of bolts. The sides of the cockpit footwell on my boat are solid -- probably laminated, but you get the point -- and the traveler base is absolutely secure. I can stand on it and there is no movement.

I also used big washers on the screws to spread the load.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 07/01/2004 07:22:15

Brent
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2004 : 09:27:00

What are the specific pieces of equipment used in the traveler setup.

I have seen a latter C25 with a split stern pulpit that had a stock traveler setup that appeared to be much better than what was put on an 80's C25. This same equipment looks as if it could be mounted as indicated in this thread and achieve the desired results. It might be too light for the job.

How effective is the traveler in this forward position. It appears to give you more control of the sail shape than the aft position due to the greater effective distance of travel, but it still seems no where near as effective as a track that would span the entire cockpit (of course). I understand the reasons for recessing it, but I question if spending roughly $500.00 is worth less than 18 inches of travel (8" of travel if reducing heel when close hauled). I wonder if a heavy swivel block mounted to the cockpit floor would be about as effective. It would definately take care of the cloths line effect.

Just trying to figure it out.

Brent

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2004 : 11:43:21

I'm not sure about "effective distance of travel." The new setup does give me some control over sail shape, but obviously not as much as one spanning the entire cockpit. It's enough for my cruising usage. The problem, for me, in mounting a block to the cockpit floor is that it would never get out of the way of the companionway. Now, the car is usually to one side or the other of the cockpit, making egress easier.

I'm going to change the mainsheet to 4:1 tomorrow: hard on the wind, the 3:1 doesn't give enough purchase.

The traveler and track is a stock Harken small boat traveler kit.

Edited by - on

Brent
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2005 : 23:43:00

Brooke,

Just wanted to follow up and see how your main sheet system has been working out over the past few months.

Brent

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2005 : 09:49:07

The past few months it's been flawless because the boat's on the hard

. Prior to that, the 4:1 was a decided improvement over the 3:1 -- no slippage in the cleat even when hard on the wind. Moving the mainsheet to the forward end of the cockpit has been a terrific improvement. It's no real obstacle for companionway egress (move the traveler car to one side or the other, especially when not under sail); sail shape is reasonably well controlled by the amount of traveler travel; aft hand for the tiller, forward hand for sheets -- what's not to like, especially considering that it gives you a bimini as well?

The 4:1 also makes lowering the mast forward easier, although it takes 25% more line to do so. I have a length of 5/16 too long to use as a mainsheet (too much line lying in the cockpit) that I replace the sheet with when I'm dropping or raising the mast.

The only drawback is that it takes away lying against the port bulkhead on starboard tack. Of course, that's also out from under the bimini, so I solved it with a second sport-a-seat.

I'm so delighted that I've changed my fantasy boat (in case I ever move up from my C25, which is financially unlikely). The reissued Pacific Seacraft (Crealock) 31 mounts the mainsheet traveler on a bridgedeck, recessing it between the cockpit seats. When I study boats on yachtworld.com, I study cockpit configurations more than belowdeck pictures (by the way, notice how many boat ads emphasize what's below and de-emphasize the cockpit. What does that tell you about seller/buyer/boat?). It seems to me a bridgedeck traveler location is the best arrangement for singlehanding, given a system that doesn't require winches. You have to leave the wheel on a C30 or any other boat of that size to trim the mainsheet. Second, a bridgedeck provides additional security against seas entering the companionway. Finally, I can easily trim the mainsheet from below deck while the tillerpilot is steering.

I'll never go back.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 02/26/2005 09:56:38

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