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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Replace Pintles if your boat is old

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bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/29/2007 : 09:41:28

Over the last two years I've replaced both of the gudgeons on Wind Dancer - not because the gudgeons were broken but because in both cases one of the bolts had sheared and was broken. I did not replace the pintles though, thinking that they didn't appear to need replacing.

Word of advice I got from a boat handyman yesterday - "When you replace part of a system it's a good idea to replace the other part too." I recommend following that advice.

Yesterday one of my biggest fears came became reality. My wife and I had been out sailing and the winds had really picked up while we were out so we were on our way home. We were racing back home on a deep broad reach surfing very large waves in very strong winds (25-30+ kts) when all of a sudden the rudder went mushy on me and we rounded up suddenly. I turned around and saw that I had lost my rudder - the bottom sleaves holding the pin of the pintle had twisted and broken completely off, leaving the pin in the gudgeon. The top pintle was still in but was twisted so the rudder was still there but laying sideways at some angle.

The weather was really nasty and we were still sailing - right towards Berkeley Pier about 150 yds away. So there was some urgency in getting the boat under control or anchored. In that weather I did not relish anchoring - so that was the last resort option. My first thought was to get the sails down so we would stop sailing towards the pier. In that kind of wind and waves I was concerned too about staying on the boat (I had an 80% hank-on jib up). I got it down and tied off then I tackled the main, which being under load was hard to bring down. I had to pull it down. I got it down but with all the swinging I really had to struggle to hold on to stay on the boat.

I got them main down and tied off - finally - but with all the blowing the main ripped nearly in two at a batten packet. During this time my wife was on the VHF radioing the CG for assistance.

So now we weren't sailing but we were not in control either. I went back to the rudder to see if I could free it so I could use the O/B. I started the motor but the prop was hitting the rudder. With my right arm on the right side of the tiller/rudder I grabbed the rudder to see if I could free the cotter pin with my left. Do not try this! The force of the water on the rudder against my arm nearly crushed my arm. It was incredibly painful, believe me. I freed my arm and after a minute or so tackled the rudder again and was able to free the rudder and bring it into the cockpit. I'm actually not sure how I did that.

Now I was able to use the O/B and was able to drive the boat downwind (thankfully) to the Marina - we were about 2 miles away from 'home'. In this weather if we were on any other point of sail we would've had to drop the anchor and get a tow as using the motor would not have been an option. Even so, we were rounding up on about every 3rd wave I think. It was a real struggle to keep the boat running straight with my 6hp Nissan at top revs (I needed max propulsion to steer in the rough stuff).

The Coasties soon made it over to us and asked if we still needed help. We said we thought we could make it in, as long as the motor held. They stayed with us until we were inside the breakwater. Then it was easy going to slip but it was not over yet. Of course the motor died at idle revs as I approached the slip, which made things exciting as I needed the motor to steer with. Somehow we managed to do a u-turn, which gave me some time to get the engine started again then I was able to go into reverse and back into the slip. After tying off I asked for a tall stiff drink.

Next order of business (1) inspect everything for damage, (2) replace both pintles, (3) replace the top gudgeon (it's twisted and unusable). The bottom gudgeon looks to be ok (at first glance anyway). I just rebedded and bolted that with 3/8" bolts and it appears to have held. And of course the mainsail needs to be repaired.

It was pretty scary but we made it through with minimal damage I think - to the boat and to us. Thank God we weren't farther away from the Marina or out someplace where anchoring is not possible and help is harder to find. The tall drink had to wait until we got home.

Bill B
Wind Dancer
#4036 84 SR/FK
San Francisco Bay

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2007 : 11:34:50

Wow Bill, some story!
My wife and I were on the San Joaquin and Sacramento Rivers near Pittsburg this weekend so I have some idea of the conditions you were facing. I have spare pintles from another rudder but I can't imagine trying to replace one out on the water. I think I'll have to inspect mine before I go out again. And your comments about the motor being useless in certain conditions is very familiar.
What interests me most is your call to the Coast Guard, I've never done that and was under the impression that in your situation they would just call Vessel Assist. Could you give more details about the calling procedure and their response?

Edited by - ct95949 on 05/29/2007 11:35:07

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2007 : 11:36:56

Bill,
WOW - some story. I've inspected the gudgeons and pintles, but really, you can only tell so much from a visual. As Whisper is a 25 yr old boat, it's your exact experience that concerns me. Glad you and your wife got through OK.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2007 : 12:54:05

Good save Bill. Called you Saturday when Hey Jude and Sparky went around TI, but I guess you weren't out there. Exciting tale. I keep meaning to check my rudder attachments! We came back Sunday before last in a round the buoys race over to Alameda then to India Basin and across the slot at Candlestick where it was blowing a Near Gale. Quite a site with all the streaks flying off the waves far as you could see. Luckily had two crew that day. Saturday it was probably Blowing over 30 at the marina entrance and couldn't get any shelter from the lee of the seawall that day. Pretty hairy getting stuff down and in the marina as one has too be real carefull the wind doesn't grab you and slam you into the wall on the way in. Sparky is set up with three grudgen/pintle attachments making it pretty secure.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2007 : 16:09:17

Bill and family,

I feel your pain and remember it being one of the bitchiest returns to port ever. Glad the family made it through the encounter...a tribute to your seamanship...

Val on Calista # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2007 : 17:05:07

I think the lesson here is that aside from standing rigging, which I'm sure you all have replaced anyway if your boat is 20+ years old like mine, is that the pintle-gudgeon assembly is next major point of weakness that if it fails has potentially catastrophic consequences. As Captain Ron said, "If it's going to happen, it'll happen out there...". Don't let it happen to you! Replace them! Believe me, this is an experience I don't wish on anybody... I'm still reliving it.

Craig - I wish I could tell you what the CG said... my wife was on the VHF with them and I really don't have a clue what she said. I do know that she did *not* hail 'Mayday' but I was pretty busy at the time. She got them out there though!! I guess she was pretty persuasive.

Hey Paul - I was sailing between Berkeley and Raccoon Straights Saturday afternoon. Sorry I missed your call. I thought about you and that wind funnel you have to sail through to get home! Now that must've been wild.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2007 : 21:17:15

"....large waves in very strong winds (25-30+ kts)"

Indeed. In those conditions things can go pear shaped in a big hurry... I think I'll order some pintles.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2007 : 01:28:24

I have to get out to the boat and check the rudder hardware. Glad everyone is ok after such a tough situation. This could happen to any of us and we need to be checking the hardware. Wasn't there a suggestion that you could use a heavier pintle and two gudgeons for the bottom set, the second gudgeon turned upside down giving you a 4 bolt bracket. Seems the two together would resist twisting of the pintle?

Edited by - on

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.