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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Quantum Sails Arrived..Ordered Line

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/17/2008 : 05:38:20

My Quantum sails arrived - Custom made Main Sail and 150 Genoa out of the premium Dacron matl made by Challenge - High Modulus. These sails do not stretch as much and not as quickly as what most sailmakers use for sail matl which is generally one of the 2 lower grades of Challenge matl. I did pay more for these sails but...made by the Number 2 sailmaker in the country and they are semi-local to me and they take the measurements off the boat. Any issues, they are local to bring them back. The Quantum guy took the measurements directly off my boat in December, we discussed options, they then had their South Africa facility make them up. The sails were inspected in their Annapolis office on Monday and then they arrived on Tuesday in a big box. Decided to have them shipped rather than pick them up because the shipping charge to Virginia was cheaper than the Maryland Tax I would have paid.

I just ordered Samson XLS Extra T 3/8" line from Defender for $1.10/ft which seemed to be the best price for that stuff that I could find. (I ordered thru our link here on the forum.)
WM has some old Yale line on sale at clearance prices but....I hesitated buying it. I had checked the web for postings and reviews of what line to use and decided on the XLS Extra T.

Also, I went down one size from what sheets I have on my present Genoa. I presently have old 7/16" diameter line. But it seemed that many were using 3/8" and that is also a bit less expensive, so decided to go that route.

These old lines must be the originals, so looks like I am also replacing running gear at this time - Seems a shame to use old line with new sails.

How about for the main sheet - Same line and diameter suggested ? presently I have 7/16" diameter line there as well. .

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/17/2008 05:39:49

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2008 : 07:26:27

I can use smaller line because I always wear gloves. Do you?
edit: Also remember that your self tailing winches are very picky as to what they will work with.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 01/17/2008 08:36:52

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2008 : 09:38:18

...and, if you're talking about halyards led aft (can't tell from your pix), your rope clutches might be somewhat picky, too.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/17/2008 09:42:56

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2008 : 11:31:06

I do use gloves since even the 7/16" line will do a number on your hands.

Prior to placing the order on the line, I checked Lewmar specs for the winch and at least the new ones seem to be okay for line between 5/16" and 1/2". Not sure if the self-tailing design changed thru the years....so taking a bit of a chance but...there have been others in past postings on same subject in this forum that indicated they were using 3/8" Samson XLS Extra T and it was fine. So...hope same goes for me or I will have a lot of extra line for a camping clothesline.

So far, not replacing the halyards but after changing these other lines...I probably will replace them as well. The halyards, I would probably use same diameter as existing. For the sheets, there are suggested tables of data in website catalogs and believe also in WM catalog that suggest smaller diameter sheets than 7/16" and so...since other forum members have mentioned in past postings using 3/8" and the fact there is also a sizeable cost differential between 7/16 and 3/8, that is why I went with 3/8". But for the halyards basically using smaller diameter line, the line is a lot less costly compared to a 7/16" diamter and so probabl wold just use same halyard diameter line as presently on boat.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2008 : 12:09:24

The halliards on my C&C 35 are 3/8", and the sheets are 7/16", so 3/8" is plenty on the C25.

The key to saving your hands is to wear gloves of course, but more importantly, when you're tacking, get the sheet tailed in before the wind fills the sail on the new side. Before the wind fills the sail, it's easy to sheet it in. After a strong wind fills the sail, the only way you can tail the jibsheet is by using the winches and pulling hard. The helmsman can help the jib tailer get the jib sheeted in by holding the boat head-to-wind for a couple of seconds during the tack, before he bears off onto the new course. It'll give the tailer a little extra time to haul in the long jibsheet before the wind takes the sail. If the jib tailer can get almost all the slack tailed in while the jib is streaming straight back, before the wind fills the jib, then all he has to do is fine-trim the jibsheet tension.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2008 : 16:54:09

I've got 3/8" line for main and genoa sheets. The working jib has heavier sheets, probably 7/16". They were on the sail when I bought the boat. You should be able to use lighter weight line on the genoa. I used either 5/16" or 3/8" line for the halyards, mine are wire to rope. Sorry, I can't remember which I used, but I'm fairly sure it's 3/8", because the halyards on my C-22 are 5/16".

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2008 : 20:26:37

When I wrote my above comments about the halyards, I was thinking they were a very small diameter. Then seeing two of you mention they are 3/8"....I know now that i was thinking of the furling line that pulls the sail up....believe that is a small diameter line. I have to check but I think you are right about the halyards, they may be 3/8" on my boat. Believe they are a bit smaller diameter comapred to my main and Genoa sheets. I will have to check it out.

Got hit with a small snowstorm turned sleet this afternoon. Probably will turn to ice tonight. So...may not be down to the boat for a couple of days.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2008 : 05:55:32

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">the winch and at least the new ones seem to be okay for line between 5/16" and 1/2".<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

FYI, I use the port self tailing winch to haul in the furler line. I simply wrap about 4 turns on the winch prior to going over the horn of the self tailer. Works a charm even on the thin furler line (I think that is 3/16" line)

Doing this makes it easy to furl the sail while keeping tension on the sheets for a nice tight wrap.

Paul

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2008 : 07:52:55

Paul, forgive the segue, I am sure you are very sensitive to the load and are not causing a problem, however I think many people could get in trouble using a winch on a furler. The power of the winch could cause real problems with a furler or the forestay. Especially with four wraps where the load would be so hard to perceive.
Larry and I have 89s with old series Lewmar 16ST and I don't think the tailing jaws would grab even 1/4" line. I would guess the newer models anticipate smaller high tech line in their jaw design. Your Lewmar 14ST winches would certainly anticipate smaller line anyway.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2008 : 12:41:23

Your point accepted Frank, yes, very considerate of the tension being applied.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2008 : 23:32:43

I am not sure I fully understand how you even use a winch regarding the furling line - Maybe it has to do with the furler mfr style. I have a CDI Furler and that is part of the forestay. Then I hoist the sail with the use of a messenger line temporarily attached to the furling rig's own line. The messenger line is then untied and the furling line is tied onto the furling rig's cleat. (No plans to replace the furling rig line. It seems fine.)

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2008 : 07:04:30

Larry, I use the winch to pull the line that run down the stbd side which furls the sail. I hoist the sail by hand pulling on the messenger as you state.

Paul

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2008 : 08:49:43

Ohhhh! That line ! I forgot about that one !

You know...with all this talk about line specifics, stretch, diameter sizing ,etc ...when I put my 150 old Genoa on this past year in place of the jib, the PO did not leave the furling line that goes with the 150 Genoa and so I just went down to WM and bought some line. I did not look into stretch, etc characteristics. I was concerned that the furling drum would fill up if I used same diameter line the PO used for the Jib. As it turns out, the CDI Instruction booklet suggested line diameter was a smaller diameter and so the smaller diameter has worked out fine for my Genoa. I guess any adverse stretch...maybe ~2% versus ~ .5% would add maybe ~ 1/2 foot stretch but you could furl the sail initially a bit more to account for that.

As far as using a winch for that line to roll the sail back up...I agree a winch would probably help. It is a bit cumbersome to do it just by hand especially if there is significant wind.

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/19/2008 08:53:27

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