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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Towing Theory vs. Reality?

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MartinJW
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/12/2008 : 12:45:00

Hi Everyone,

I have a 1996 Mitsubishi Montero that, according to the owner's manual and all other documentation that I can find, has a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs. I'm a little skeptical, but this is what I'm finding. (The Montero has a V-6, 3.0-L, ~170 hp engine and weighs about 4,300 lbs.)

I know that my new C-250 + trailer + outboard engine is right around 5,500 lbs.

So, theoretically, I would be exceeding the vehicle capacity to use it to tow the boat, but would it be reasonable to tow the boat a short (~40 miles) distance with the Montero two times each year?

One concern that I have is that I need to take the boat from 6,300 feet to 7,000 feet and back down to about 4,500 feet elevation in about 40 miles. Not awfully steep, but there are long descents. The trailer has a surge brake system and dual axles.

So, what do you think? Is this a practical arrangement, or am I completely crazy to even consider this?

Do any of you tow in excess of your vehicle's stated capacity?


Thanks!

Martin

C25/250 Int'l Ass'n Member
2008 C-250 WK #973
"Bluebell"
Lake Tahoe, CA/NV

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 12:54:12

I would not do it because you'll be very uncomfortable on those grades and the wear and tear on the vehicle transmission and brakes will be high. Rent or borrow a truck.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 13:31:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Do any of you tow in excess of your vehicle's stated capacity?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No

Three things to consider with any tow vehicle
1) stopping
2) fish tailing
3) everything else

Your vehicle is not adequete for bringing your rig to a quick stop and you are almost assured of a fish tailing incident.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 14:10:10

Switch to electric brakes, easy to do.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 14:43:18

We used to trail JD with our Chevy Blazer (the small suv version) we lasted 4 months and that is in South Florida (very flat unless you are on a turnpike ramp!)

We upgraded to an F150 4x4 5.4L Lariet. Now we keep looking in the mirror to make sure the boat is still there!

paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 14:55:42

I see you double posted the same question in both General and the C250 froums. See my answer in the C250 forums. Please do not double post in the future.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 14:56:59

For only twice a year, rent or borrow a truck, or barter with someone you know and trust. I could pull our C-22 with our Dodge minivan from lake to home & back, but to Chattanooga with a 1400 ft climb & decline crossing the Cumberland plateau was too much for the transmission. Now I use an Isuzu Trooper 4x4 with no problems other than crappy gas mpg.
As for our C-25, I'll rent/borrow a suitable truck.

Edited by - dmpilc on 09/12/2008 15:00:43

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 14:58:09

Before we owned a 1 ton truck, we towed our '95 C250 boat with all gear (mis?)using our a 1990 Astro van 200 km (130 miles) per trip with more incline than what you describe... Admittedly it was on the edge of its capability and nearly overheating but we did it several times... Jim is right use, if possible, an alternative mode of transportation.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 15:19:56

Martin,
I concur with the rest of the responses, you don't your trailer wagging the dog. There are a number of threads on this so I won't repeat my near accident 15-20 minutes after buying the boat. Suffice to say had we been driving my Toyota truck instead of the F-250 we'd just bought at the time, fishtailing would have been the best outcome, but being pushed into oncoming traffic was much more likely.

Search the forum for "towing", you'll find plenty of these discussions.

Edited by - on

MartinJW
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 16:08:01

Well, there certainly seems to be a consensus on this issue.

Thanks for the advice!

Martin

Edited by - on

CapnEddy
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2008 : 20:55:48

Martin,

Sailing is only one of the many disciplines/adventures that I enjoy. (Sailing, flying, golf, backpacking, dog agility, home remodeling, wine, ...) Each of these activities has "experts" on their respective forums, and I have learned much from reading their posts. However, I seldom comment unless there is a particularly salient topic. Your towing situation has hit a nerve. No reasonable person would deny that "bigger is better" when considering a tow vehicle, barring any economic constraints. . However, when I purchased "Close Quarters", a 97 250WB 5 years ago, I towed her from LA to our home in the San Francisco Bay area with my "98 Mercedes ML320. (5000# tow rating, 215hP, 233#ft torque, 20+MPG - 10 when towing)). In addition to local launches in the Bay Area, Santa Cruz, Monterey, and Lake Tahoe, we have taken "Close Quarters" to Anacortes, Washington for the past four summers in order to enjoy the San Juans. Other than a somewhat laborious climb over the Siskiyous, the ML was adequate for the job. I have never experienced fishtailing or any other negative handling/braking concerns. Would I have preferred more power? - sure. But how many vehicles do I need to own?

In my situation, my research put the weight of the boat and trailer at a bit under 5000#, my tow rating. You state that the Montero also has a 5000# rating, but has 45 less HP (dunno the torque). For a short, level, tow you are probably ok - exercising appropriate caution.

Capn Eddy

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2008 : 21:20:32

The weight difference between a wing keel and an empty water ballast is ~ 1500lbs I think. Pretty substantial difference.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2008 : 23:38:33

I have towed over rating by going slowly over relatively flat land, but with your inclines I wouldn't. I wouldn't worry about wear and tear over a short distance and infrequent tows, but those downhills could really kill you.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2008 : 10:08:43

I've towed a lot of things. I won't bore you with the list... You can pull your boat with a golf cart but if you want to pull at highway speeds and up or down a mountain, your vehicle is too small to do so safely. Engine size is not important, pretty much any modern engine and tranny could get the job done, but size of brakes, overheating of components, weight and length ratios...are the issues.
I have no doubt that if you took your time and drove very carefully and road conditions are ideal, that you could do it.

Emergency stops are something you might not encounter but what I can almost guarantee is some other idiot on the road will want to cut in front of you because he doesn't want to be behind a boat...forcing you to deal with a much shorter than ideal stopping distance.
Downhill presents the biggest challenge, because your tranny and your brakes will heat up and your boat with it's weight concentrated in the middle of the trailer will be pushing on a single point...the ball hitch, which is also a swivel point. This is where accidents originate.
The Rocky mountains and the grades around Tahoe can serve up daily examples of this.
Flat terrain with your rig: possibly. hilly or mountainous terrain: no.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2008 : 10:14:46

electric brakes

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2008 : 16:46:45

I weighed my C250 Wing on a highway scale a couple of weeks ago. 6800 pounds including the trailer. We tow with a GMC Yukon (not the XL). Just got back from a 700 mile round trip tow. Never went over 50MPH and never felt comfortable. That much weight wants to push the vehicle around and we have an Equalizer hitch. We need a bigger vehicle (F250). Your Montero is a no-go for all but very short tows.

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MartinJW
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2008 : 23:59:58

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

We addressed this issue by buying a new Chevy Silverado pickup with a towing capacity of 8,500 lbs. We used the truck to tow the boat up and over a 7500' pass with no problems at all. In retrospect, I don't think that the old Montero would have been up to this task.

By the way, both Ford and GM are practically giving away their 2008 model pickups right now. We took advantage of the GM Employee Pricing to save about $4,000 off of the MSRP and then GM threw in a $5,000 rebate. We bought a new (4WD, extended cab) truck with nearly every bell and whistle for about $25,000.

I do have a question about towing on long descents with the surge brakes, but I'll make a new post for that question.

Thanks again,
Martin

Edited by - on

MartinJW
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2008 : 00:38:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 Switch to electric brakes, easy to do.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank,

The trailer is dual axle with 4 big disc brake rotors - would this still be an easy conversion?

Do you know if anyone sells a kit for this conversion and/or how much it would cost?

Thanks,
Martin

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2008 : 08:39:27

I imagine that complicates things. I would call Champion Trailers and ask them. http://www.championtrailers.com/
You may need a bigger vehicle.

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jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2008 : 15:43:11

Rent a truck from U-Haul. That's what I did to move my Catalina 250 Wing Keel over 200 miles from North Carolina to South Carolina. The mid-size U-Hauls all have a two inch trailer ball welded on the rear and a standard four wire light connector. I could hardly tell the trailer was back there except when going up hill and filling the gas tank. But you better keep the speed under 60 mph even on interstate highways and take turns and uneven pavement at a fraction of normal speeds.

Edited by - on

KD4AO
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2008 : 08:36:33

An additional resource for towing recommendation is a couple of forums at www.rv.net. The forums are Towing and Tow Vehicles. You will find a lot of information and personal experience towing heavy loads for long distances. One consideration is to make sure you new truck has a transmission cooler which is usually included with a towing package. If not, I would suggest installing one. Good luck and enjoy.

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