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Leon Sisson and refinishing iron swing keel

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Merrick
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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2009 : 14:31:03

My trailer came with the jacks. They bolt to the frame so they can be adjusted/ removed. I took them all off to
paint earlier this year. I did a quick search of some trailer parts sites and didn't find anything, but I think maybe a welding shop could fabricate them . They are pretty simple. If you want a close up pic let me know.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2009 : 15:10:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skrenz
 Steve,
Where did you get your screw jacks from? Did you need to weld them to the trailer or do any other special modifications?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I purchased a single house jack (perhaps you could splurge and buy two!) at Home Depot. After I cut it to length I had one of the square plates welded to the bottom of the jack. I would jack up the stern a couple of inches, block the hull, then move the jack towards the bow, jack up the bow, block the hull, and back to the stern and so on. It was a slow, laborious process

. Don't forget to use a block of wood on top of the jack to spread the weight.
This was an economical yet effective approach - without having a lot of equipment left over afterwards.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2009 : 18:48:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Merrick
 My trailer came with the jacks. They bolt to the frame so they can be adjusted/ removed. I took them all off to
paint earlier this year. I did a quick search of some trailer parts sites and didn't find anything, but I think maybe a welding shop could fabricate them . They are pretty simple. If you want a close up pic let me know.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'd like some pictures if you don't mind.

Edited by - on

Merrick
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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2009 : 11:11:21

Gary here is how they attach - the big nut at the top is on a threaded rod maybe 30 inches long, so you turn the nut to raise/lower.
The rod /nut sits in the square tube and can be lifted out.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4023 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2009 : 13:47:59

I blocked up many boats using the teeter totter method to get it off the trailer. This is done by lowering the tongue of the trailer to the ground. This will lift the back of the boat. Put two jack stands at the back up to the hull. Now raise the tongue of the trailer till the boat is level. Put cinder blocks on each side of the boat a little wider than the trailer and lay a railroad tie across them under the front. Now lower the tongue and the boat will be off the trailer enough to pull the trailer out. I don't have the swing keel so I don't know if this will give you the clearance under the boat that you need. Just another method to consider.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2009 : 22:41:45

<center>Where the heck is Leon when you want him?</center>
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skrenz
 Is Leon Sisson still on this forum? I've been searching the past posts on working with the swing keel and very many of them refer to a process that he has spoken on...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Here you go:

[[url="http://sailincat.com/boating/C25_proj/C25_sk_refurb.htm"]Swing Keel Refurb Procedure[/url]]

[[url="http://sailincat.com/boating/C25_proj/C25_sk_install.htm"]Swing Keel Installation[/url]]

More to come when I find the time.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - Leon Sisson on 11/19/2009 19:48:43

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2009 : 14:06:17

Good to hear from you.

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skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 16:53:26

Leon,
What a great piece of documentation. All well thought through and easy to comprehend from the included pictures. Thank you very much. One of the things vexing me was how to handle the keel once you got it out of the boat. I thought about a sled also but couldn't figure out how one would get the keel upright. Your process solves this problem. Any thoughts about sandblasting and re-coating the keel while its under the boat but lowered down so all is accessible?

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 22:19:50

Steve K,

I'm glad you found the description and photos of installing my swing keel helpful. As I was working out the details and planning the job, I remember wishing I had some guidance from someone who had already done it successfully. That's why I got out the camera.

Re: "Any thoughts about sandblasting and re-coating the keel while its under the boat but lowered down so all is accessible?"

Every boat's condition, situation, and budget is different. As I mentioned in the [[url="http://sailincat.com/boating/C25_proj/C25_sk_refurb.htm"]Swing Keel Refurb[/url]] link, I had the benefit of having reconditioned a smaller swing keel before this one. I also worked in a couple boat yards to help pay for college. I have some experience with what works and what doesn't. I know quick and dirty half measures won't last, and would therefore be time and money wasted. Every step I described in the swing keel refurbishing procedure is necessary to achieving a fair and durable result. If I were to try and pick one step which is more critical than the others, it would be thorough sand blasting. There is no substitute.

The amount of sandblasting horsepower required to get the job done right in a reasonable amount of time could damage your fiberglass hull from up to a couple feet away.

Sandblasting is unpleasant work, even with the best equipment. I spent weeks worth of my spare time sandblasting the much smaller, less rusted keel using a 5gal hopper siphon sandblaster with 3/8" to 1/2" hose and a 3/4HP compressor with 30gal tank (necessitating long rest periods to rebuild pressure). I knew I couldn't do an adequate job of sandblasting the much larger, more deeply pitted Catalina 25 keel, even with my newer 2HP compressor. Having it done professionally was painless by comparison. I think the pro I took it to used a 100hp or so four cylinder x four cylinder engine driven compressor. (Like a V-8 engine with one cylinder bank converted to an air compressor.)

I called around, got an estimate, and made an appointment. I delivered the keel in the back of a pickup truck. The sandblasting pro had a forklift or backhoe available to unload and reload the 1,500# keel using a chain or cable sling. My keel was ready for pick up in a day or two. The iron was so clean, it looked pale gray, almost white. The only remaining rust was black oxide in pits smaller than a pinhead. (Although the whole keel was turning pale orange a few hours later when I got it home.)

For the epoxy encapsulation to succeed, there must be no oxygen remaining in contact with the iron. All rust contains oxygen. As I recall, there are something like 16 different types of rust, ranging from orange (high in oxygen), through red, brown, to black (low in oxygen). Even without the addition of outside oxygen, small amounts of the 'lighter' forms of rust will spread by converting to much larger volumes of the 'heavier' iron oxides.

The hydrochloric acid etch and phosphoric acid conversion treatment can only reach so deep. It can't stop rust buried in deep pits from continuing to expand.

Any iron exposed at the edge of, or at a breach in, the epoxy encapsulation will allow oxygen rich water to seep under the intact barrier coating.

I hope it doesn't sound rude or dismissive to say do it right or don't bother, but that's pretty much the point I'm getting at.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

-- Leon

Edited by - on

andypavo
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2009 : 11:22:22

I was so relieved to see that photograph of the threaded rod method. I would like to add that I have a suggestion for raising the boat. I have a trailer with 2 2x4 runners and 1 roller up front, also a roller cradle for the keel. I am planning to put the boat in the water, while the boat is out I will try raising the runners and the roller up about 6", maybe 10" and then put the boat back on the trailer. The previous owner didn't have the trailer adjusted properly anyway so this will be a good opportunity to fine tune the fit of the trailer. I am fortunate to have a 7 foot extendable toungle.

Edited by - on

andypavo
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2009 : 11:43:13

One other thing while I was pondering this project. My 1980 Cat 25 keel has deep pockets of rust. Sandblasting would reveal a somewhat moonlike surface I'm sure. I would consider filling some of these cavities with weld and then grinding them smooth. Having a smooth trailing edge is important for getting water to "stick" to the surface of the keel for better lift. When I actually do this I will be sure to post pictures. I'm going to give myself plenty of time to complete this process. Just wish this was time on the water instead of under my boat.

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