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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/06/2010 : 19:01:50

Oh how wrong I was. Reading all the accounts here of exceeding hull speed, I was always doubdtful and wrote off the observations as failing to consider currents or faulty paddlewheels.

When I sailed home from winter storage, I sustained 8 knots for about 10 minutes. 8 knots by GPS without any current on an inland lake. I posted about it here and folks told me what was happening and what to watch for, so today I tried to replicate the conditions.

Broad reaching in about 20 knots I hit 9.3 on GPS after sustaining a surf in the high 8 knot range for some time today. And it was absolutely a surf. I could feel the boat fighting its bow wave, then a little shudder as it slid over the wave, and grabbed the face of it.

Helm went neutral, but maintaining the momentum with the sails pulling hard, the boat sustained itself well above hull speed. Getting into the high 6's isn't hard, however climbing over the wave and holding position on the face of the wave is more difficult. Also, while surfing, the boat feels like the wave is holding it, but control is a little dicey, like th ewave is as much in control as you are. It actually feels a lot like surfing a canoe on a standing wave. If that means anything to you.

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - Prospector on 06/07/2010 05:45:44

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2010 : 19:51:01

YEE-HAWW! It all started for me on a Sunfish--skipping across the water like a flat rock! We only got there a few times on reaches on our C-25, with spray off the hull amidships. It's absolutely real! The helm goes neutral because the keel at that speed has greatly enhanced "lift", so the boat simply wants to go where the keel is pointed.

I'm not sure what your definition of "standing wave" is--usually that's the violent up-down motion caused by the reflection of a wave off something like a sea-wall, double the amplitude of the waves causing it. You see lots of that in walled inlets off the ocean or Great Lakes. It's "standing" because the waves don't appear to be going anywhere--just violently up and down. I've almost been thrown out of a small runabout by those things.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/06/2010 19:55:38

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2010 : 04:43:44

This is canoe surfing - you find a big wave in a whitewater run, plant the canoe on the face of it, and use th epaddle to lightly control the boat just enough to hold it there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFjNAsswmFg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zuuI41PLio

Edited by - Prospector on 06/07/2010 04:46:49

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2010 : 05:03:00

Try pumping the main right before the wave hits the transom -

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2010 : 06:07:55

Unless your actully talking MPH my boat must be a slug. I'm doing good to hit 6.5 knots in gusts between 15 and 20.

Then again it might be my blown out original sails! Surely it's not me!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2010 : 07:23:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Unless your actully talking MPH my boat must be a slug. I'm doing good to hit 6.5 knots in gusts between 15 and 20.

Then again it might be my blown out original sails! Surely it's not me!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Gary, it's mostly just a matter of getting the right windspeed and direction, and bearing off the wind as far as necessary to hit maximum speed. I've never exceeded hull speed on a beat, but have done it on a beam reach, or a broad reach, or even dead downwind, if the wind is strong enough. If a fairly heavy boat like a C25 could exceed hull speed on a beat, I think it would be a rare and brief occurrence.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2010 : 07:39:13

I surfed for long periods in the Regatta de los Todos Santos in 20 knots of wind on the beam, long, 6 to 7 foot waves from astern, under my #2 spin. We had long periods at 8.3 knots and hit 8.8 knots. This was not due to current. My crew was helming and I was trimming and he thought the rudder was going to be torn off!

It is really fun to reach along wave trains, drop in on a face, and take off on a surf. You need big winds, big sails up and waves with just the right shape. I get to do this several times per year.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2010 : 07:43:52

Jim, I haven't been able to do it with a "big" sail - my largest is a 155%. This season I have on ly been using my 110% so far, and it seem sto do th etrick if you have your trim set up right in a big wind with mostly flat water.

Yesterday I was travelling southbound with the wind out of the northeast. At the north side of the lake, I could get to hull speed (very flat water) by the time I was at the south end of the lake (15 miles across??) I was surfing on smallish waves (4 feet?) but mostly riding my own bow wave. This was with a 110% in about 20 knots of wind.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2010 : 10:45:42

Try 11.3 with an asym, 5 foot waves and 15 mph winds. Ran this way for two hours on Lake Superior and dragging my zodiac.

I've been as high as 8.5 on just the 110 surfing downwind.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2010 : 13:59:20

I've seen as high as 9.9 kts on my chartplotter surfing five-footers in 10-15kts. In those conditions, it's the wave that's responsible for those short bursts of speed. They're thrilling, but quite different from sustained speeds above hull speed.
As it happens, yesterday I sailed from Oriental to Ocracoke, 44 nm in 15-20 kts and 3 foot following seas. (Yes, Tom Potter, I was out on Sunday!) I made the trip in 7 hours for an average speed of over 6 kts, but for several hours of that I was averaging 7.5 kts. I don't have Jim's courage to fly the spinnaker in such winds, but I know this: The key is the helm. If you steer the course, you'll "squoosh" into the back of the next wave and lose all that surfing speed. If you anticipate the next wave, you can minimize the deceleration into the next wave and maintain the extra speed from the surfing effect. I always handsteer in following seas. "Otto" costs me a half-knot at least, plus it's FUN.

Edited by - windsong on 06/07/2010 14:18:55

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