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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Drilling for keel bolts help

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tidesailer
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/07/2011 : 21:24:49

Please I need sugestions I have been trying to drill my first hole for sister bolts in the iron keel and am not getting anywhere. I am starting out with a colbalt bit 1/4 size for pilot starter. Im using a heavyduty 1/2 drill and applying all my weight on it but it seems to only penitrated about 3/8 of a inch. I am using good tap and drill oil.Should I be using a press? has any one rigged up a drill press? If so is thier a way of using a cheaper drill press.Ive done the searches on this topic but seem to be following most of the advise. last is a driil press I guess. any more advice...thanks...Don

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2011 : 05:11:13

Don,

You may recall reading Jim Baumgart's post where it took a week to install sister bolts using a modifed drill press which sat on the main salon floor.

I guess one question would be - are you using a speed that will provide optimal cutting? You would (naturally) have better speed control with a drill press.

Applying all your weight on a handheld drill for an extended period of time sounds painful (if not unhealthy for wrist joints) and even more painful considering the minimal progress you are making.

Perhaps you can e-mail Jim Baumgart via this site and ask him if he saw the actual drill press (he had a contractor do the work) and how it was modified.

Edited by - on

tidesailer
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2011 : 10:03:39

OJ, Im using a slow speed with the same drill that Psechrist posted he got from Harbor frieght which he had good success with. Its a heavy duty 1/2 drill. I have tryed it at all speeds with rapid tap fluid,1/4 colbat drill from Dewalt.Without a press he was able to do it on a weekend,but he sounds like he is a machinist by trade.I will search Jims posting first to see what I com up with. Any more tips I appreciate it ...thanks Don

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2011 : 17:34:35

I was going to recommended reading posts by Jan Breide on this subject but I see you've asked her questions previously.

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tidesailer
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2011 : 19:20:43

OJ I found the problem,To start the drilling, I was using rapid tap fluid. So I cleaned the hole and started drilling dry and the bit took a bite and started.I used a different cutting fluid and it started drilling fine. Maybe rapid tap is good but have to make sure the drill is bitting first before lubrcating.So all is well. But I did notice how wet the core wood is drilling down in the bildge.I read that you can let it dry first for a few days.hope it will still hold its strengh what do you think? Thank you much for your reply. Don

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2011 : 00:20:28

Regarding the bilge wood core, I think that Catalina recommends to get it out.

This is C27 procedure http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/images/keel_factory_drawings/keel_stub_wood_procedure_from_catalina.gif

Of course unless you are able to unscrew the original nuts, which I suppose you are not.

Or, you can follow this procedure using stainless steel plates http://members.shaw.ca/robnyethephysicsguy/famous_catalina_smile.htm

And here is more about the keel fitting http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/60785-keel-bolts-repair-question-3.html#post554396

Edited by - Tomas Kruska on 06/09/2011 01:01:01

tidesailer
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2011 : 12:13:31

This boat when I purchased it had alot of water in the bilge.The wood looks like it is in bad shape.Its Gonna be quite a big job cutting it out the wet wood(its a itchy job) and replacing it with the mat and roving material . Thank you for all your help.thanks for the tech info Thomas........Don

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2011 : 14:54:00

Great information!

Thanks for sharing Don and Tomas . . .

Edited by - OJ on 06/09/2011 14:57:00

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2011 : 18:17:42

So....I've read this thread and a bunch of others on the keel bolts....the one thing that got me thinking was the Catalina guy saying the keel bolts were only there for alignment and to hold it while the bonding agent cures at the factory....if you wanted to pull the keel off you'd need a chainsaw......then there's the comments by Maine Sail about being glad you've got the bolts because the bonding can fail and the keel could drop without the bolts, challenged someone to try it (but no takers)...

What's the general consensus on keel bolts? Really needed? Only for alignment? That sucker really stuck on there from the factory?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2011 : 18:54:29

I believe MaineSail is spot on . . .

Edited by - on

tidesailer
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2011 : 12:06:55

Ill agree with you OJ. Almost 2000lbs is alot of weight to hold with out bolts. Poyester resin is strong but to adhere to one side and hold all that weight..hard to swallow.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2011 : 09:52:50

I have never heard of anyone losing a fin keel off a C25. Not saying it has never happened but it has never been reported here. I did read where it takes a special tool on the end of a fork lift to break free a keel off a C27 and I would expect they are similar to a C25. My 78 bolts (salt water for 30+ years) looked as bad as I have seen but the keel never showed any sign of loosening. I would expect a water soaked sole is more likely to be a result of rain water being allowed to accumulate in the bilge then a leak from the keel/hull joint.

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tidesailer
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2011 : 08:38:37

Thanks again for all your contributions

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tidesailer
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2011 : 08:46:31

One last question,I was so far able to get one of the old keel bolts out of the keel. the top of the bolts are rusted but the good thing is the threads inside the keel were clean and good shape.I am replacing this with a new ss bolt ,have anyone heard of using antisieze compound on the threads, or some kind of sealer ? Thanks Don

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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1181 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2011 : 10:54:08

When I installed my new SS studs I put anti-seize compound on the stud and a marine RTV (3M 4000UV I believe) on the portion of the stud that passed though the wooden sole. I also put a bead of RTV around the stud before I placed the washer and nut. How did you get the old stud out?

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tidesailer
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2011 : 22:05:50

With a deep socket on the frozen nut with a 1/2 inch breaker bar. I think I I
got lucky. I hope the next five are going to be that easy. I have also purchased a cam style stud remover(KD1708) for worst situation.Locking 2 nuts together sometimes work in removing studs.Thanks for the tip Joe Im going to go back with antiseize on the threads, maybe at the threads coming out of the casting I will also put a sealeant to prevent mosture entering the threads.Sound good? thanks again.Don

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2011 : 01:34:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tidesailer
 One last question,I was so far able to get one of the old keel bolts out of the keel. the top of the bolts are rusted but the good thing is the threads inside the keel were clean and good shape.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What keel do you have? Old school ironcast or lead?
Good luck removing the rest of them. Leave us a message if you were successful.

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tidesailer
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2011 : 09:14:54

I have old school cast iron, drilling holes is pretty tough. More on it this weekend, I will clue you in later...

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Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2011 : 10:24:55

It is all in a pilot hole. I did it last summer and the secret is that pilot hole.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2011 : 13:19:23

Yep, the point of a drill has near zero velocity. Starting small and staging up through several sizes will save time in the long run, even in the quarter inch holes I drilled. The honker for a new pivot pin was already a big hole.

Edited by - on

Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2011 : 17:49:04

Amen ... Dave

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Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2012 : 03:19:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tidesailer
 I have old school cast iron, drilling holes is pretty tough. More on it this weekend, I will clue you in later...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry to reopen old thread, but how it went? You removed just nuts or even screw-rods? What tool you have used? thanks

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tidesailer
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2012 : 21:36:49

Tomas I used a deep well socket to remove the nuts but be patient they are rusted on for many years. Removeing the stud is a different story I locket to nuts together and used a impact gun. You can buy a stud remover which I used in some acassions when the nuts were to rusted. Also had to use a air chisel to knock out the rusted bolts but you have to me careful not to damage the stud.....good luck...P.S. use penetraiting oil on the threads

Edited by - on

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