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Protecting Exterior Wood

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3368 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/05/2012 : 04:05:49

I have now for 7 years been using Cetol on my exterior wood. I have been mostly satisfied going this route as it seems the best balance between keeping the wood in relatively good appearance with minimal periodic effort to maintain it. Thru the years, I have had a few areas go bare from the Cetol chipping off or wearing away. My annual/semi-annual 1-2 coat maintaining has resulted in some of those areas appearing lighter and so my exterior wood is now not a completely uniform single wood tone but has some lighter areas. I probably will need to strip the wood completely and start again or just live with it as it appears right now...It is better than bare wood but just not a uniform wood tone.

In contrast, my tiller is probably the original with the boat and has the original varnish on it which has held up in excellent like new condition all these years because it has always had a Sunbrella cover on it.

So...I have been thinking about a potentially new project to buy some Sunbrella from Sailrite and make a covering utilizing the snaps on my cabin top that are probably there for fitting cover on when the pop top is up. I could use those snaps to hold a custom made Sunbrella cover that would mostly cover all the exterior wood. The snaps are just inward on the cabin top from the wood rails but if I utilized a Sunbrella cover with snaps, the cover could have flaps with small weights to hold down the flaps in case of wind and that would extend the cover down the sides of the cabin top to not only cover the rails but the 8 foot long thin wood strips below the rails.

If the exterior wood is covered, my thought is that I could then entertain using varnish, Cetol or maybe even teak oil on the exterior wood and still have relatively low maintenance if a cover protects the wood.

Any of you covering your wood ? How are you treating yuor wood and how well does it hold up thru the years ?

By the way, one impetus for this is that I may replace my 8 foot long wood strips since catalina Direct sells replacements and I have one that is worn from underneath due to the last 3 screws not holding any longer and the wood strip sticks out about 1/4" letting weather conditions deteriorate the underside of the wood. I need to remove the wood strip and epoxy the screw holes and at very least recondition, rebed/re-install the old strip. But I may replace the wood strips and if I do, that would be the time to install a cover to protect the new wood..and old wood hatch slides and the hand hold rails as well.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/05/2012 04:08:39

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 04:51:49

Larry, that's exactly the same idea I have on my to-do list.
I'm going to create a Sunbrella cover that will overlap all exterior teak and windows from the V-bert hatch to the half of cockpit.
I'm planning to add just bungee lines from its corners to stachion base.

My wood is bare with regular teak oil treatment. With regular I mean max. twice a year with cleaning by oxalic acid once a year.
If the wood is covered with some tarp it will keep its natural look without washing out the oil and getting gray. So I would suggest to keep it bare.

Btw. I have bought this kind of epoxy quick plastic tank repair kit like this one

It's an epoxy and hardener in form of putty and you just have to munch a piece of it and cures in about 10 minutes. It's white and super easy for quick patches like your holes under wood. It does not match the color of the gelcoat but rather to use on invisible places. I have it permanently on my boat together with my tools

Edited by - Tomas Kruska on 06/05/2012 05:05:28

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3368 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 07:10:00

Tom,

Looks like we are on same track. I have some epoxy very similar to what you provided in your post. It's the epoxy shaped in a cylinder and you break a piece off and keep smooshing it until the ineer and outer matl mixes completely and that's when it starts to set in about 5-20 minutes depending on the product. I am going to consider your idea of using bungee cords. That may work well...I am not so hot on using some weights put into the lower seam of the Sunbrella to hold it down...bungee cords sounds like it would work better. I am going to give it some thought.

I noticed Sailrite sells the Sunbrella in different thread count/weight but there are a number of Sunbrella fabrics they sell that are still applicable to marine use and all weather conditions...so it would seem the lighter weight may be the way to go if it is still recommended for marine and all weather conditions. I guees what I am concerned about is how to do any needed stitching of the matl on a regular sewing machine...not going to buy a sailrite sewing machine for this project ! But not sure just weight Sunbrella one can use and still get away with using a regular sewing machine. Another thought is to bring it in to a local tailor /sewing service and have them do the stitching since they probably have semi-industrial grade sewing machines. Any knowledge just how easy is it to utilize a home sewing machine with Sunbrella fabric ?

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 07:33:15

In my previous marina, my neighbor was a Hunter, newish model...don't remember which one. All of his exterior teak had a Sunbrella cover...even smaller decorative pieces had little covers that snapped on.

I would like to have a Sunbrella cabin cover like this one at CD:

[url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=2326&ParentCat=173"]Cabin Cover[/url]

But man...$827 is pretty steep....my $15 Wallyworld tarp may not look so pretty, but it does the trick for now.

Edited by - Joe Diver on 06/05/2012 07:38:31

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3368 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 09:07:09

Joe - Thanks !

I had checked the CD website but must have missed the cover. At over $800...that's more than I was planning on spending but it does illustrate something I had not given thoujght to and that is the companionway hatch boards. Definitely a lot of wood there and would be best to cover it. I do not recall the exact costs of getting the matl thru Sailrite but believe it is something like for a 36" or 48" wide roll per foot long at around $15 - $20/per foot. The fabric alone coud cost upwards of $200 - $300. Then add the cost of the thread for stitching, snaps, grommets (if also using bungee cords. I could see total matl costs upwards of $300 - $350 and then add labor for sewing if not done by yourself and the cost could get up to ...~ $500 ? I may be off on the numbers and possibly less than say 10 feet would be necessary since if off of a 48" roll, then the Sunbrella could be cut and used where the full 48" width is not needed but I think some of the fabric comes only on 36" rolls. Anyway, maybe the matl costs could be brought down to about $250 and then sewing labor, if going that route, would definitely push it potentially up to $350 or so. But a lot better than over $800...but I would not buy it for that cost anyway. When I get a chance, I will take some emasurements and get a better estimate as to matl needed. I may get a chance after work today to take measurements.

Anyway, I think this would be a great project that you really can't go wrong messing anything up on the boat.

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 11:08:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Joe - Thanks !

I do not recall the exact costs of getting the matl thru Sailrite but believe it is something like for a 36" or 48" wide roll per foot long at around $15 - $20/per foot. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
For $20 per foot you can go with 60”. This is just one of many on line companies. http://www.outdoorfabriccentral.com/?gclid=CLjs4s3Xt7ACFQOFnQodwQsJ6w
As for the home sewing machine, you will need to experiment a little. See if it will sew through multiple layers of denim.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3368 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 16:16:35

Glen - Thanks ! I took a quick look at the website. I may consider them.

Anyway, I took measurements after work and rechecked my 2011 Sailrite catalog. Good and bad news. The bad news is that if you include covering the hatch boards, while the width varies from forward to aft (the hatch boards), the overall approximate length/width is about just over 12' long and width varies from about 43" forward measuring from the port to starboard wood trim strip (that's the strip that runs 8' long below the grab rails) to the widest point near the companionway where the width from port to starboard trim strip is about 72". But you would have to add a few inches to the measurements just to be safe and to ensure full coverage below the strip. AT 72", that means you would have to have a Sunbrella seam since the widest width at least is not 48" as I earlier mentioned but 60". It comes in 48" and 60" width in the most popular Sunbrella fabric. So, the overall length & width is quite a bit larger than I expected which means higher matl cost.

The good news is that it is not sold by the foot but by the linear yard. Costs for the matl I was considering in the 2011 Sailrite catalog ranges from $15-$20/liner yard depending if you buy it in a 48" or a 60" width. Thyey also sell Sunbrella with a urethane, etc backing but then the cost goes higher and my tiller cover has no backing - It's just the Sunbrella fabric. The website that Glen listed, believe the Sunbrella fabric was a bit less expensive than the Sailrite Sunbrella fabric but I have to study that a bit more and quick scan of the website, believe it is more limited in the color selection compared to Sailrite (I ddi not see Pacific Blue jumping out at me but sailrite shows it. But I have to spend more time reviewing the website to the Sailrite offerings.

So, if figuring just the bulk matl without cutting and patching leftover matl, you would need about 12', may need to go to 15' length since the dimension on my 1989 Cat was a hair over 12' length and need to buy double that in the 48" fabric and sew them together. Possibly patching some matl together or if my measurement was slightly off, may get away with 12' length times 2, so that would be about 8 linear yards at say $16/sq yd = $128 of Sunbrella matl. Increasing one of the 48" rolls to 15' adds another $15 bucks to the total. But I have to check Sunbrella's website for 2012 prices and then I want to lay out the detailed measurements I took today to see what is possible regarding the need for 2 - 12' lengths of 48" width matl. In any case, overall, the Sunbrella matl appears to cost much less than what I estimated off the fly in my earlier posting (mainly because I was figuring on the cost being per foot and it is per yard).

Now, I am one that oftentimes gets carried away with projects. So, bottom line is that after I eventually make a detailed drawing and then figure the snaps, grommets and sewing required, you then have to consider is the cost and size of this whole thing going to be worth it figuring you have to remove and install it each time you go sailing vs just continue with what I am doing now which is 1-2 coats of Cetol every 6-12 months.

I would like to make an accurate drawing of how this would take shape but I also have some other things to attend to when not sailing, mowing, etc. My daughter is getting married in 1 1/2 weeks and so I have some things to attend to regarding last minute preps. But I'll see when I can devote some time to this.

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/06/2012 03:03:35

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 18:05:47

Larry,

CD sells covers for the hand holds. They are sold as a pair.

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=458&ParentCat=117

Edited by - on

waterbaby
Navigator

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USA
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Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 19:39:08

Larry,
I was going to suggest that instead of trying to cover the whole area as one cover, make individual covers for the wood. I have made covers for my hand rails and will be making a cover for the hatch/companionway trim. The only wood I haven't determined how to cover easily is the trim along sliding camper top. But I'm considering sunbrella strips hemmed with bunge cord and snapped into the hatch board cover or maybe piggybacked off of one of the original snaps for the camper cover. It would be sort of like an elastic edged cover for them. The material costs are high with Sunbrella and as you mentioned getting the cover on and off would be a bit of a chore if the whole thing was covered. I've been out on the boat a few times and so far haven't bothered to take the grab rail covers off. Mostly because I just don't think about it. I still grab them just fine even with the covers on.

I purchase a big roll of sunbrella off of e-bay last winter and have made several things with it. I think it was 17 yards and I paid something like $160 for it. I noticed someone mentioned that most likely this is a knock off and it does seem a little thinner than the sample I ordered from Sailrite but it's working and looks good. I've made a mainsail cover, added a headsail sacrificial cover, grab rail covers, engine cover and tiller cover with it so far and still have enough to make the bimini.

As far as whether a regular sewing maching can handle sunbrella, it will sort of depend on your machine. I'd say that most likely it will be fine everywhere except in the hemmed corners where you may be dealing with 6 layers of the fabric. I've used my home sewing machine on several heavy fabric applications but it's a little challenging anywhere multiply layers of fabric are involved. If you sew everything except the overlapping corners and set it up so that the corner is where your snap is set you may not have to worry about this too much though. Just make sure you do a a good lock stitch where you end. I think most home machines should be able to handle a regular hem in Sunbrella.

Anyway, just my two cents....

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 19:50:36

I never take my tiller cover off and the finish is just fine even though it's the original tiller. The Sunbrella definitely makes a difference.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/06/2012 : 03:33:53

Good comments ! I know they have those grab rail covers (thanks!) and I have considered rather than cover the whole area, just make strips to cover the trim pieces but as was mentioned, except for the grab rails and perhaps the hatch boards, covering the 8' trim strips and the hatch slider strips is not as easy. You would have to ensure that however you figure out the hold-downs, that they are also secure enough to hold down when there are stormy winds. Having given it some thought, I probably could come up with something for both those wood trims but then you have to consider just how much matl cost are you saving versus sewing up individual sections for each trim piece vs just covering the whole area. The other thing is that while removing and re-installing each of the coverings is not such a big deal, it would mean that each separate piece would have to be attended to every time you go down to the boat to sail or as mentioned, sail with them on. But the goal is that you want something that is not cumbersome to deal with each time and then with removal of the cover, you can appreciate the nice wood finish for those times you are on the boat. Having one cover over the whole area is perhaps more cumbersome as one bulk but probably is easier to remove and re-install with just attaching the perimeter snaps/bungee cords rather than dealing with say 4-6 separate covers. I guess it comes down to an individuals preference regarding aesthetics, practicality and cost.
So, there are probably a number of ways to attack this thing. I think I am still going to explore going with a single cover. I want to also look over the CD Main Sail Cover I bought years ago and see how it is constructed - possibly learn from the details. It is well made with some reinforcement under the snap fittings. But sewing thu that would be a bear...but it's something to consider. I also want to review the hemming of the edges, etc. Anyway, even if I do nothing, Ilooking into potential projects and then if deciding to forge ahead is part of the hobby which I enjoy. We shall see if something comes about from all of this.

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/06/2012 03:36:37

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
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Response Posted - 06/06/2012 : 03:49:24

Larry, check [url="http://www.sailorstailor.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CT2702CAB"]here[/url]. It's cover for C27.

...or cheap rectangle tarp

Edited by - Tomas Kruska on 06/06/2012 04:34:25

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 06/06/2012 : 05:24:28

My boat came with a tent type cover that goes over the boom from the mast to the bimini. It covers the wood from the sun and also keeps the boat much cooler. It was made for the boat by an awning company-Bartlett in Austin Texas.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3368 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2012 : 09:32:16

I do have a winter tarp and could use that but it's heavy duty matl and not that easy to take on and off...definitely not a 5 minute job. But a tarp does work as shown and has got to be cheaper.

Edited by - on

waterbaby
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Response Posted - 06/06/2012 : 19:45:42

Well it seems like you have a pretty good idea of what you want and definately you should go for it. Any time I decided to sacrafice what I wanted for the cheaper/easier thing I was unhappy with it and ended up spending even more money and time.

I'm on a modular kick right now and more focused on saving space and time so my perspective is different.

Good luck with your project!

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 06/06/2012 : 22:44:53

One thing to keep in mind is what a close fitting cover does to your gelcoat. I looked at a C25 on Lake Grapevine that had a red Sunbrella (I think) cover that fit close over the cabin top and cockpit.

A) It was a PITA to take on and off just to look at the boat.
B) The cabin top had a faint tinge of red to it from the fabric either rubbing on or bleeding into the gelcoat.
C) In discussing with the broker he brought up the point that a close fitting cover in Texas heat increases the temperature of the gelcoat under the cover dramatically and could lead to gelcoat issues as the boat ages.
D) If it also covers the companionway you will have reduced airflow through the boat possibly causing mold and mildew issues plus you will dramatically increase the temperature inside the cabin during the day.
E) The gelcoat is going to age/weather differently than the rest of the boat that's exposed. Over time you may have a bright and shiny coach roof and a dull and chalky deck and topsides.

I like the idea of a close fitting cover but down here in the heat I think a boom tent type cover would be better. A fair number of boats in my marina have the boom type cover with a another cover over the front deck area that's supported either by a line led from the forestay to the mast or by attaching the jib halyard to a loop sewn into the middle of the cover.

There's also this option -->> http://www.intheshd.com/

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/07/2012 : 04:33:49

Gary - Excellent points to consider !

I don't know...I really did not want to go with a boom tent cover.

I do not answers for all of the points you brought up....So I will have to ponder this for awhile. I did consider the venting, etc issues like the solar vent on top which would be blocked by a cover. My thought is that what covers the hatch boards would probably not fit tight, there would an air gap since the moulding sticks out a bit from the hatch boards and the vent intake is very low capacity. The solar vent is another issue - I would have to either contour the cover so that it curves around the solar vent or put a hole in the cover so the solar vent is not blocked.

The only area where the cover would probably fit tight is center cabin since the rails are raised, which would keep it off the cabin sides. High temps under the center cabin area ...yeah ! That may be an issue that needs to be considered. As far as the area being covered and eventually the protection showing that area a lighter shade of white compared to the unprotected area....maybe an issue but probably would not show up for years and I kind of doubt that it would have negatory esthetics on a 22+ yr old boat other than positive.

High temps under the cabin center area....that is one thing to consider...It may not be as hot in Virginia but we definitely get hot days as well. The other issue you mentioned regarding the taking on and off of the cover...that is an issue. It's just another thing to square away before and after sailing. While it does not take long to take a cover off, it is an additional nuisance. It is the one reason why I would not make a cover. It is definitely a thing to consider before jumping in on this project. I could make individual covers or a combo of buying a cover for the rails from CD and then figure out what to do with the slide rails and the 8' side trim...but the side rails adjoining the sliding hatch, nothing immediately comes to me how to attach an individual cover for each slide rail and my thought is that it may be easier to remove one cover over all the rails rather than detach individual covers on each rail. Individual covers and weak attachment point may also make individual covers more susceptible to being lost overboard during periods of bad storms/high winds. Moving on to some other project on dropping this one sounds like something to also consider.

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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Response Posted - 06/07/2012 : 10:51:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Gary - Excellent points to consider !

Moving on to some other project on dropping this one sounds like something to also consider.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Larry if you do continue to play around with this project, make your pattern out of visqueen. This allows you to see through the somewhat clear plastic and mark it where you want to cut. Use a china marker or a sharpie type marker, but be careful if you use the sharpie for marking, and only use black. The ink is slow to dry on plastic so don’t handle the pattern until you are sure the ink has set (the blue color never really sets on visqueen & you don’t want it to get on your gelcoat) Also always mark the top - port & starboard of a pattern. Center marks will also come in handy when you are looking at the pattern and you are miles from the boat

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 06/07/2012 : 11:14:59

We made a pair of handrail covers from an old mainsail cover. they are held on by squares of velcro between the loops in teh handrails. Fast and easy - one night project.

I have thought about a companionway cover, but I am lazy. I just put cetol on the teak each year instead.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 06/07/2012 : 15:36:35

This is the material that my sailcover is made from. 3 years later, it looks brand new. Lots cheaper than Sunbrella.

http://www.leesailcovers.com/Weathermax80.php

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 06/07/2012 : 19:23:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Gary - Excellent points to consider !
...I could make individual covers or a combo of buying a cover for the rails from CD and then figure out what to do with the slide rails and the 8' side trim...but the side rails adjoining the sliding hatch, nothing immediately comes to me how to attach an individual cover for each slide rail and my thought is that it may be easier to remove one cover over all the rails rather than detach individual covers on each rail. Individual covers and weak attachment point may also make individual covers more susceptible to being lost overboard during periods of bad storms/high winds. Moving on to some other project on dropping this one sounds like something to also consider.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
IMHO, if you purchased or made individual covers for the hand rails and used regular snaps in each "loop" of the rails I think the rails sit close enough to the coach top (especially on our '89s) that they would not be that susceptible to being blown off in a storm.

Other than the hand rails I think it would be easier to touch up or reapply Cetol once a year rather than wrestle a cover off and on every time you come and go.

Edited by - GaryB on 06/07/2012 19:24:14

Voyager
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Response Posted - 06/07/2012 : 22:11:14

I had a cover created for Passage's cabintop by Defender's customer fabric service that I used to keep the rain out. It doubles as a boom tent. It has six grommets for tie downs and it completely covers the handholds, the slider, the eyebrows and the companion-way crib boards.
Provides multi-uses, its good for keeping rain showers out at anchor, and as I recall it cost ~ $300.

The only drawback I found is that because the fabric moves in the breeze, the bottom side of the material would chafe the Cetol finish, and it would wear through on the corners of the handles and other locations. I still had to reapply Cetol regularly, since this constant buffing wore through the Cetol coating and exposed the bare wood!

Now I use it mostly as a boom tent at anchor.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 06/08/2012 : 03:42:46

Fabric moving in a breeze and potentially wearing aweay the Cetol, etc that was applied to the wood - Good input. I could see depending on the cover configuration this being a potential issue...obviously an issue you experienced.

As Gary indicated, could just put a cover on the hand hold rails...less likely for the matl to buffeted as in the case of a full cover. But then that still leaves other wood trim not weather protected. So....I am probably going sailing after work today. I am going to look things over again and see if any lightbulb goes off as to minimal effort removing a cover or covers that protects most of the wood trim.

Edited by - on

Boomeroo
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Australia
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Response Posted - 06/08/2012 : 04:11:33

Hi, I used a poli tarp for a year and it rubbed the varnish and broke up . So I had a rectangle cover made in sunbrella ( $200 at Rolly tasker in Thailand). This is attached to the Mainsheet and mast and the sides with velcro and bungee at the 4 corners . Working well for a year .
I go out to work on the boat then I move the centre aft to the top of the main sheet and it provides Shelter to the cockpit.
I go for a sail I un clip one side and centre and roll over to one side along the rails very compact and easy .
Problem I am getting a little bit of mold on the cabin top after a very wet summer
Boom cover is ok but sun reflects off the water and attacks the wood finish ..

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 06/10/2012 : 09:56:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Boomeroo
 Hi, I used a poli tarp for a year and it rubbed the varnish and broke up . So I had a rectangle cover made in sunbrella ( $200 at Rolly tasker in Thailand). This is attached to the Mainsheet and mast and the sides with velcro and bungee at the 4 corners . Working well for a year .
I go out to work on the boat then I move the centre aft to the top of the main sheet and it provides Shelter to the cockpit.
I go for a sail I un clip one side and centre and roll over to one side along the rails very compact and easy .
Problem I am getting a little bit of mold on the cabin top after a very wet summer
Boom cover is ok but sun reflects off the water and attacks the wood finish ..

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Can you upload some pictures. This sounds interesting.

Edited by - GaryB on 06/10/2012 09:56:26

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 06/11/2012 : 03:15:07

I looked over the cabin top again and cosndiering some of the comments with regard to mildew/mold forming and also potential for wind flap of the covering wearing away the rail finish, I have a modified plan for covering the rails utilizing less Sunbrella matl kind of utilizing strips along the port and starboard that would cover all 3 rails but leave the center of the cabin top exposed. Then the strips would sort of curve toward each other as they mate just before the companionway hatches and then cover the hatch boards. I would utilize a combination of grommets and bungee cords to hold the strips in place along with attachments utilizing some of of the pre-existing snap fittings that are on my cabin top originally for attaching a pop top cover.

I do not have time this week to sketch up the configuration since I have other priorities with my daughter's wedding this coming Saturday but I then plan to lay it out dimensionally and see how workable it then seems. Utilizing some of the pre-exisitng snaps and a few bungee cords from grommet attachment points, having just strips and not covering the entire cabin top will save a bit on matl costs, however, Sailrite also sells Sunbrella with the undersides finished with matl that would be less wear-prone to varnished, etc surfaces and so I may decide to go with the more costly Sunbrella matl they offer. The breathability would be reduced but having just strips would allow air flow from the sides. Anyway, it's the latest plan I am considering.

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/11/2012 03:17:47

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