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Looking at a C25

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Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/18/2013 : 08:19:29

Hello everyone.
We are new members and came here seeking information about the C25.
We are new to sailing and have a lot to learn. We have sailed the Great Lakes with a seasoned friend on his 42' and have fallen pretty hard for sailing, although we have a lot yet to learn. We live about a mile from the largest lake in Iowa but strangely sailboats aren't as popular as you might think which has taken us out of state in our quest.
We are currently looking for a C25-C30 and located a 1980 fin keel, standard rig C25 with dinette along Lake Michigan. The dinette wasn't our first choice but with the attractive price we may concede to that floor plan.
Our main intention is to use it on our lake with occasional friends and family. Most of the time it will probably be just my wife and I and maybe our 6yr old granddaughter.

My first question... what is the best way to have it inspected? I prefer word-of-mouth and didn't really want to just pick one off the internet. Although the boat is about 6 hours from us, we would make the trip to see it but it would be just that - look at it. We are not well versed with inspecting a boat. Classic Mustangs? Yes. Boats? No.

Second question is... For a first time sailer, would the fin keel, std rig be appropriate?

Last question, for now... what are the problem areas of the C25 that I should pay close attention to?

Thanks in advance.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 08:54:03

Welcome Kyle! A few questions:

What's the vintage? (EDIT: Answered above.)

Will you keep her in the water or elsewhere?

How are the depths there? (The fin draws 4'.)

Where/how will you store her in the winter?

Will a trailer be involved? How will she go on and off--ramp or lift?

What do you know about the sails, engine, and other equipment? Does she have a roller furler?

These will help us get into your questions a little deeper...

Again, welcome! And by the way, a C-30 is a MUCH bigger boat than a C-25--like 2-1/2 times the displacement (weight), lots more living space, and much bigger everything (sails, etc.). It's a BIG starter boat!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/18/2013 09:10:59

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 08:55:12

If you are looking at boats on Lk Mi. take the time to visit Muskegon, and see what they have at Torressen Marine http://www.torresen.com/. They are very fair there, and treated me very well when I was shopping. They will not pressure or try to upsell you.

I will not recommend the surveyor I had for my boat. I got a good boat but there were more than a few things I wish he had commented on when doing the survey.

The Dinette interior has some advantages - don't write it off - especially if its intended for 2 or 3. The ability to fold the dinette into a bed is a good thing. Not sure if that is a mod, or not. The traditional layout features a table that falls on the floor, so I think the dinette is definately better if you plan to eat at the table. I have modding the table attachment on my chronic list of things to do. Its been there for 3 years now.

Learning to look at boats is best done by looking at boats. Tour the boats at your marina. Go to the boat show. Pay attention to comments about designs at the marina etc.

If you are looking at a swing keel, there are different items to consider than a fin (fixed) keel boat, but some stuff is chronic, and is listed here under this link: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/summertm.asp although that list is a few years old, things haven't changed much. I find one of th echallenges with a boat is that the changing technology makes many upgrades obsolete as fast as they are installed, so pay attention to what tech is emerging before you discount an upgrade that isn't there. For instance, I just installed a stereo system, and now am shopping for wireless bluetooth speakers that will play from my phone. Similarly, having just installed a chartplotter, I have now downloaded a bunch of navigation apps for my tablet.

For the nuts and bolts of the boat, the list won't change though. Leaky windows, soft decks, anchor locker designs, poor wiring, and old sails will all be with us for years to come, and will be items to look for in a survey. If the boat is clean, and the hardware has recently been rebedded, then you should have a worthwhile candidate on your hands. If the deck is soft, you should get a price to repair it before proceeding. If the windows leak, check if there is rot around them, and consider the effort to repair them. Listen to the ouboard running. Make sure there is water flow and it shifts nicely. The bilge should be dry. The keel bolts shouldn't be too rusted. Look for water marks around the chainplates, and check that the bulkheads are sound.

The beauty of buying a Catalina of any size is that they are like your Mustang - reasonable performance, and there are so many around that parts are easy to find (generally) and mods and support are everywhere. You can transform the boat into a racer or cruiser, whichever suits your needs. It will never keep up with a performance hull, but it will do respectably if your skills are up to it. For coastal cruising a Catalina can work out very comfortably at a reasonable cost.

If your boat comes on a trailer take the time to look closely at the tires (I replaced mine last summer for $500). If it is on a cradle, question whether you will need or want to tow it. Getting a trailer and getting the trailer 'right' can be both expensive and frustrating after the fact. If you don't need a trailer, there is no sense paying the premium for a boat on one, or the ongoing hassles of trailer maintenance. When we sailed Lake Simcoe we did not have a trailer, and we didn't miss it. Now we sail Lake Ontario and I wonder if our opportunities would have been better with the trailer years ago. Who knows.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 09:09:07

One more question: What't the asking price?

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 10:04:20

Problem areas that are common on the C-25, but maybe not other boats (so they might get missed in a survey). I'm not going to cover normal things like chainplates and standing rigging, because those are always inspected.
* Check the rudder for signs of splitting. This happens when water gets into the core. A new rudder is at least $600.
* Gungeons (what hold the rudder) aren't cracked and don't have too much play.
* Through hulls don't leak and hopefully have been replaced (at a minimum the valves should have been replaced). Catalina did these in a cheap way that is surprisingly functional, but not up to current codes.
* Mast wiring is in good condition. The wiring is embedded in the fiberglass and hard to replace. The deck connector and wiring there is often corroded.
* Anchor locker drain works and isn't clogged.
* Pop-top gaskets don't leak
* State of keel bolts. I had a lead keel C-25, but a 1980 will have an iron keel. You can search the archives on here to learn more about those and potential problems.
* Front deck "dead light". These are easy to replace and last about 20-30 years.

They are nice and simple boats and I enjoyed really learning how to sail on one. I think that they sail pretty nicely and parts are very easy to find. We had a tall mast fin keel with the dinette. I wasn't super excited about the dinette at first, but it actually works quite well. We left the table down much of the time, it makes for a big lounging area.

Edited by - on

Davy J
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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 10:25:19

Welcome aboard, All of the above info is excellent.

I will add that I have a swing keel, because, while Tampa Bay is plenty deep enough, the canal at my dock is only about 3' deep at low tide.

The other thing I will say, don't buy a C25 based on the price. If the owner has a well equipped boat in good condition it will probably be selling for $ 7000.00 or more. If it's less, there's probably a reason. Either the boat needs work, or the boat isn't equipped well.

My boat fell into the later category. Almost zero equipment. Here a list of items that I added to my boat because it just didn't have them:

Roller furler
Roller furling genoa
Anchor roller
Bimini top
Reefing hardware and lines
Mainsail outhaul
cabin top winch
ropeclutch
Stereo system
Whisker pole
Asymetric spinnaker
Spinnaker halyard
Masthead crane
Autopilot
Power inverter
Solar panel
LED Nav & anchor lights

There are probably also some items I'm forgetting. Of course you don't need all of those things to have fun. But they make the sailing better. Then though, there are the items I later replaced because of age or worn out:

New Mainsail
New 4-stroke outboard
Fuel tank
12v Batteries
Running rigging
Windows

Because I was a seasoned boater at the time, but a new sailor, when I purchased the boat, I didn't realize how important all that equipment is. And how much it would cost to add them. If I were looking for a C25 today, I would be looking for at least some of those items in the top list, to be on the boat and be in good working order.

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 11:04:02

I missed your second question - yes Fin Keel Standard rig is a good choice. A swing keel will need more maintenance, and while it is fine for a first time sailor, the maintenance is onerous to do on your own (from what I have read) and expensive to have done for you. With a fin keel though, beware the "Catalina smile" a crack in the fibreglass between the keel and hull that is largely cosmetic, but can be a sign of failing keelbolts inside the boat.

If in the slings, you see a gap there, ask to have the keel bolts torqued, and check to be sure the bottom of the bilge is not soft. If those items are OK, then the separation is only cosmetic, and can be repaired with a squirt of 5200 and some sanding. Catalina put out a bulletin to fix the problem, and it may be in the tech tips on this site as well.

The only other caveat with a fin keel is that you should remember you have a 4ft depth sounder built into the bottom of the boat. When it goes off, you'll know it.

The decision between standard (SR) and tall rig (TR) is dependant on your sailing venue. The SR was intended for sailing on big water. Like the ocean or great lakes where there is lots of wind down low. TR was designed for inland lakes where the taller mast can catch high breezes at treetop levels. In theory, neither rig is more powerful, (research "high aspect ratio rig") in reality, both boats sail about the same. My SR boat can easily keep up with TR boats sailed by equally skilled folks on both open water (Lk Ontario) and lakewater (Lake Simcoe). In light breezes a TR may have a slight advantage if the wind is up high.

Many buyers assume the TR is better since it goes higher, but that means earlier reefing in big winds, and a boom that hangs far lower for regular sailing. If you buy a TR get a hockey helmet until you get used to being hit in the head by the boom.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 12:26:21

The TR boom is only 1' lower than the SR boom with standard sail sizes. No one on my boat was every hit by it. If you want a really low boom get a Capri 22. To make it even worse the Capri 22 boom has a sharp bottom edge to really let you know that you were just hit by it.

The tall rig is a lot better in Puget Sound where wind speeds are often light. It makes the C-25 into a pretty decent light air boat if you also have a clean bottom and use the rudder effectively. I don't know anything about sailing in the midwest. However if my sailing venue often had <10mph wind speeds I'd greatly prefer the TR. I don't see the tall rig as being better because it is taller, I see it as being better because it has another 25ish sqft of mainsail and a corresponding amount of jib.

alex (who enjoys sailing a C-25 even in 2-3mph of wind)

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 12:50:51

Wow, thanks everyone! I was waiting for the email notice that never came or I would have responded earlier.

Here's the info in the classified:
Fresh water Catalina 25 in overall good condition for her age, with teak and bottom paint redone and outboard professionally overhauled in 2012. Standing rigging recently replaced. Traditional mahogany interior with good headroom, sleeps 4 comfortably. Solid cruiser, well suited for daysailing or short overnights.
SAILS: original main and jib in fair condition, 150% genoa in excellent condition. ENGINE: 1984 Evinrude 9.9HP, stored indoors off-season RADIO: VHF, AM/FM stereo ELECTRICAL: new 12 volt marine battery in 2012, wired for shorepower INTERIOR: head with storage tank, fresh water tank, ice box, lighting TRAILER: fair condition, usable for off-season storage

The owner says the trailer (double axle) is NOT road worthy and has been used strictly for moving and storing the boat. A friend says a good "road worthy" trailer is good for about $2500. I'm not sure at this point if we can make this one road worthy.
Does NOT have the actual dinette table - table is missing.
Cushions will need updating/repair.
Wood could use refinishing.
The owner added - You'll note that some Catalina 25's of this vintage are significantly more expensive. Ours is in need of some updates and thus is priced accordingly. She's still a good boat and functions well overall.

I will try to answer all the questions;

Stinkpotter asked:
Will you keep her in the water or elsewhere? We would like to slip her in the summer months. It's highly probable that it may not see water this year as we take time to bring it to our standards and better master the art of sailing with our friend.

Where/how will you store her in the winter? I'm doing my best to find indoor storage for winter but she could end up outside for the first year.

How are the depths there? I have not checked depths but the C25 would be among the small boats on the lake and I don't think depths are an issue.

Will a trailer be involved? How will she go on and off--ramp or lift? Trailer is mentioned above. I'm thinking I'd have to have the boat lowered in/out every year.

What do you know about the sails, engine, and other equipment? Does she have a roller furler? Sails are described as "fair" but I'm thinking that's like advertising a car has "little" rust.

One more question: What't the asking price? $3500

Davy J:
This C25 looks pretty sparsely equipped.

Once again, thank you everyone. I am reading and re-reading all the replies.

Edited by - Kper on 03/18/2013 12:53:38

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 13:09:10

We bought our boat in that price range as well. As long as the hull and decks are solid, it comes down to how much you sweat equity you want to put in.

Sails sound like they will need to be replaced. The standing rigging sounds good, a table is not biggie.

Sounds like a yard trailer: Probably not one you would refurbish for hauling. A fin 25 is least setup for trailer sailing anyway, and looks like your intended use would fit a fin keel. I sought a fin keel to avoid additional maintenance. They are supposed to point a little better?

Cushions have been a 3yr project so far.....Again, your motivation level is the deciding factor.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 13:09:22

Some photos can be seen here.
I read, ponder, re-read and ponder some more all replies! ;)

http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Midwest6/library/?

(I just realized they are really small - sorry)

Edited by - Kper on 03/18/2013 13:10:48

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 13:13:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ape-X
 We bought our boat in that price range as well. As long as the hull and decks are solid, it comes down to how much you sweat equity you want to put in.

Sails sound like they will need to be replaced. The standing rigging sounds good, a table is not biggie.

Sounds like a yard trailer: Probably not one you would refurbish for hauling. A fin 25 is least setup for trailer sailing anyway, and looks like your intended use would fit a fin keel. I sought a fin keel to avoid additional maintenance. They are supposed to point a little better?

Cushions have been a 3yr project so far.....Again, your motivation level is the deciding factor.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was hoping to be able to do something with the trailer since I'm exactly 3 miles from the marina.
I'm guessing with sails and cushions we're up to another $4k-$5k?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 13:20:12

Hmmm - $3500, but you will need to redo the trailer and buy a pair of sails. Thats a tough call without pics. You may have deal, or you may not.

The table isn't a big deal. Buy a sheet of plywood and laminate the edges. You may find you like not having one.

Cushions are not cheap. At least not that I've heard. If you are a decent tailor, you can make a set, but the materials are still expensive.

The great quote on here is that no matter what you pay for yoour boat up front, you are going to end up with a $10,000 boat. Its up to you whether its $10,000 in repairs or $10,000 up front. To me this sounds like a $10,000 boat with a lot of labour attached.

Edit to add - cushions look passable in the pics. Maybe worse in real life??

Edited by - Prospector on 03/18/2013 13:31:09

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 13:38:33

So basically it's $10k now or $10k a bit at a time.
One thing we don't mind is sweat equity as long as it doesn't involve serious repairs.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 13:50:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So basically it's $10k now or $10k a bit at a time.
One thing we don't mind is sweat equity as long as it doesn't involve serious repairs.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Pretty much dead on...

Here is a conservative estimate of my add-ons:

Roller furler 760
Roller furling genoa 900
Anchor roller 100
Bimini top 250
Reefing hardware/lines 100
Mainsail outhaul 100
cabin top winch 300
ropeclutch 100
Stereo system 250
Whisker pole 375
Asymetric spinnaker 600
Spinnaker halyard 100
Masthead crane 80
Autopilot 525
Power inverter 120
Solar panel 150
LED Nav & anchor lights 150

Total....$ 4,960.00
Then this:
new main.....900.00
New outboard 2000.00

+ your boat price 3500.00
.......$ 11,360.00

And this does not include any of the regular maintenance jobs.
Not trying to sway you from that boat, it might be just right. Because when you would be finished, almost every component would be new.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 14:22:33

You can see more of what I 'm talking about right here in our swap meet:
[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25745"]Aceguy 1984 C25[/url]

It has many of the upgrades I mentioned and is priced at 7000.00.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 15:23:24

Hmmmm......

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 16:33:31

Some more prices from my C-25 (which I bought for slightly more than what yours is listed for, but it had a 6 month old good motor):
* new cushions: $2200
* sails: $1600 (new main, used asym spinnaker, used jib)
* running rigging (including blocks and clutches): around $1000
* electronics (autopilot, fish finder) and lighting: about $1000
* rudder, tiller, and associated hardware: about $750

I easily spent another $1000-$1500 on small parts and a couple of hundred hours in labor. I sold the boat for about double what I paid (still a loss). Since then the new owner has spent another $1200 on haul out, bottom paint, and waxing/buffing. I have no regrets, I learned a lot on that boat and really enjoyed sailing it.

alex

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 16:54:06

Think about how long you intend to keep the boat. If you don't expect to keep it very long, buy cheap and don't make upgrades unless you have to. If you intend to keep it for a few years, spend more, buy one that has already been maintained and upgraded. For long term ownership, you can buy a boat that has already been upgraded for less than it costs to replace lots of sails and equipment with new. I bought my C25 new in 1981, knowing I would keep it until I retired more than 20 years later, so I loaded it with optional extras, and enjoyed having a well-equipped boat that didn't need any significant repairs or upgrades for many years.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 18:07:59

ha! Yep $10k all the way up... or more (gulp)
$6000 for the boat/trailer.
$1000 for registration/taxes
$1800 for new main
$2200 for new genny
bottom paint/scrape/and all gear associated with that. $500
Trailer parts $200
New radio/speakers/VHF Antenna wiring, $200
New cam cleats... $300
New traveler blocks $60
New bow eye $75

And it keeps going...

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 18:28:42

As they say, a $10k boat will cost you $10k (insert your own dollar amount), no matter what you pay for it up front.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 18:34:39

Once again I am amazed.
I may have to run every boat I look at past this group!

New direction... Should I avoid salt water boats?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 19:13:48

There is truth in what everyone says, but keep in mind what Steve said and that you might not want some of the add-on/upgrades for a long time if ever. Some things you will need to spend money on soon, but with a sound hull and good rigging you've got a good start. Sails and running rigging are requirements, but good, off-the-shelf sails are fine for many of us for less money. I'm happy with less expensive cam cleats instead of clutches for most applications on a boat this size. Roller furling is a very nice non essential. Pearl's PO had a couple of clutches and an anchor roller that he intended to install - I have intended to install them for years. Its all about balance, but you should look at as many boats as you can to determine what price point/condition you want to enter.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 19:57:39

You don't have to pay $10K, either up front or over time, for a decent boat.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 21:46:22

About all we can tell from the pix is it's a C-25, pre-1983. Here are some random thoughts, out of any particular sequence...

The trailer is probably a liability--you can't tow it to Iowa as-is, and if you could (with good brakes, tires, bearings, lights, etc.), what vehicle do you have to do it? (The minimum is a 3/4 ton pickup, Suburban, or equivalent.) If you store at a marina, they'll probably have jack-stands for the hull and blocks to go under the keel. The trailer is likely to be not that useful, especially if you can't get the boat back to Iowa on it.

One design difference starting with C-25s made after 1982 (I think) is a fuel locker molded into the cockpit seat, rather than a shelf inside the big port-side "sail locker" (on the 1980), which is commonly called the "dumpster" here. I held out for my 1985 SR/FK partly for that fuel locker.

We had a full set of cushions made for our dinette interior by an auto/boat upholstery shop--fabric and foam. The cost was about $2K in the year 2K, but that was also in Fairfield County, CT, commonly called the Gold Coast. IA may be a different story.

The 33-year-old sails will probably work, but will cause more heeling (sometimes a concern for non-sailors) with less speed (generally not that important at first) and less ability to "point" toward the wind. You should think about replacing at least the main early on--you can find or get lots of advice here on that. The jib (110%?) could serve you for a while, and the 155% genoa is a "big hunk" for new sailors--you can grow into it for lighter-air days, but forget about it for now. And I'd wait on the replacing the jib until you make a decision on adding a roller-furler. If your friend has one, you know what I'm talking about. Having to hank on, hoist, douse, and un-hank a headsail is a set of activities some people relish. A roller-furler has changed the lives of many of us--pull one string and you're under way--pull another and you're done and wrapped up. Many of us have chosen a 135% genoa for a roller furler, as an easy-to-handle and flexible choice.

The 30-year-old 2-stroke Evinrude could run practically forever, but you may soon covet a modern 4-stroke outboard that runs much quieter, with no smoke, and (with electric start) starts like your car. That's a mere $2.3K or so--less than 2K for a non-electric start 6hp, which can be sufficient for an inland lake. Just get an extra-long (25") shaft no matter what.

$10K total cost might be a little high for this vintage, but the principle holds--if you get it for "a steal", it probably needs a lot. I'm thinking $7500 should get you to a good place with that vintage--either in a nicely restored and fully equipped specimen at that price, or one that you can afford to make good for that. Steve Milby makes a very good point (as usual)--you'll generally do better by buying a well-maintained and upgraded boat than buying a clunker and doing it yourself. The market just doesn't support passing on the full cost of maintenance and upgrades. We do what we do to our boats for our enjoyment--we're not going to make money on it (or break even). Another thing I'll add is that the more work that appears to be necessary, the exponentially more than that will actually be necessary. Some people take care of their boats for their own pride and peace of mind--others who let things slide most likely won't tell you the whole story, or don't even know the whole story. A 1980 "project" C-25 with a vintage outboard and original sails is a dubious buy at $3500... I'm not going to say more so I don't piss off some owners of the same (although I may have already).

Finally, if you're looking for your first boat for inland lake sailing, just learning to sail, and want accommodations for day-sailing for a few guests, I'd tend to recommend something like a C-22 or similar sized boat. Everything is a little easier, the cabin offers good storage and a place for a potty, handling around the dock is less drama (at half the weight), towing on a trailer is much simpler (for the same reason), the cockpit is just as big (in fact wider), the sails cost a little less, etc., etc. And the C-22 is one of the most ubiquitous boats on the market to both buy and sell, for when you decide to go for that 42!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/18/2013 21:48:46

Kper
Captain

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Response Posted - 03/19/2013 : 04:59:08

I am still in awe of all the advice I have received here. Just the time you all have taken to help us humbles us every time we open this thread. If you were all closer we'd take you to dinner!

This has really made us sit down and think about things.

Initially, we were looking for a C-22 but my wife has her priorities and 2 of them were pretty high on the list. One was she wanted room for 4 people to comfortably use the boat. Whether it was us and our 2 grown kids or friends. The other was she is a stickler about having some sort of privacy for the head. The C-22 didn't provide that. It didn't take me long to figure out that we would have the C-22 for no more than a year and we'd be looking to sell and upgrade. I hate trying to sell things, especially when I have to sell before I can buy what I want! We pondered for weeks about the C-22 before deciding the C-25 or C-27 was where we wanted to be.

The particulars of what equipment to get doesn't seem to concern my wife other than creature comforts... Bimini top, Pop top cover - those things get her attention.
So, what I've been thinking is that I would really like to have it trailerable. A trailer for me is almost a must. We live close to the lake and I may be able to get free, or next to free storage when it's not in the water. What this has told me is a wing keel might be the way to go. Anyone agree? We have a 3/4 ton truck.

I called a retired co-worker who I haven't seen in a couple years. I knew he had sailed but what I didn't know is he has had a C-27 since 1997. He invited us to sail with him whenever we could get to the lake about 40 miles from us. He also has a 17' catamaran that he says we are going to do some learning on. He says it will tell us right away when we aren't doing something right by getting us wet. Once we understand the catamaran we'll move to his C-27 and apply some of those principles that we learned.
He also trailers his C-27 to and from the lake every year - about 30 miles.

That WK C-25 in Oklahoma interests me but, again... no trailer.

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