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Inverter or Generator?

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/31/2006 : 04:21:22

Going on a mooring means no access to AC power. I'm wondering if I would be better served by an inverter or a small portable generator. Since I currently have no way to produce power on the boat (no alternator on my outboard), I have no way to replenish the juice in my one battery.
This wasn't an issue last year as the battery lasted the whole season just running the few things it had to, but I wasn't staying on the boat running a laptop or lights all night. Since I would either have to lug batteries back and forth or bring a generator anyway, I'm leaning towards the generator, something like a Honda EU 1000i or equivalent.

Opinions? Other options or configs I've not thought of?

Thanks.

Rick

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 05:55:19

You may be very well served with a 20 watt solar panel. There are many advantages to using solar. A 20 watt panel should be able to recharge your battery in 4-5 days.

The Generator is nice but adds a lot of cost and complexity. For certain situations, it is the only real choice.

Edited by - atgep on 03/31/2006 05:57:30

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 06:41:58

Staying on board every night and running a number of devices will drain your batter, it's only a matter of time before they run flat.
Solar is the environmental way to go! I'd put up a pretty big panel.
To minimize the load, change out all lamps to LEDs.
If you add to the load, then, like us, get a generator. We got the Subaru Robin 1700, much bigger than the E1000i in size, but luggable, and very quiest. The only issue we have with it is the vibration making the cabin 'warble', it produces a deep vibrating drone. So we're looking at introducing some kind of anti vibe mounting (see our thread on that one.)

We have solar powered water heater at home, have to watch the temperature throughout the year as it gets scalding hot. But this is South Florida.

Wish you luck.
Go Green!

Paul

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 07:16:33

I agree that a large solar panel would be the best alternative for your DC requirements, as a full day's recharge will compensate for the use of lights at night. You might also want to upgrade to two house batteries.

If you need AC to run or charge your laptop, then you have a completely different problem. Since you titled this thread "Inverter or Generator", I assume that it's really the AC issue for the laptop that you're trying to address. To run an inverter would require a considerable bank of house battery capacity, and only the best inverters supply clean enough power to run electronics. So, the generator would be the solution, but again only the best supply clean power. I think Leon or Bruce posted the make and model of a generator that produces electronics-grade power on another thread.

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 08:11:03

Rick, sounds like you may be going the generator route in which case you want to be aware of the hazards of carbon monoxide emission.

Lots of testimony of people being overcome by it from some seemingly innocuous sources.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue,N.Y.

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johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 10:09:59

Because I gunkhole a lot I have used a Honda 1000 generator on the boats for the last 5 years.
When I use the generator I plug it into my shore power connection.
Exhaust fumes never a problem if you think about it.
Have had more problems with large boats starting their engines and charging thier batteries at docks with no shore power and got a little whizzy.

While in Canada last year I moored next to a Canadian Navy 60' navigation boat for three days and the Captian gave me a one inch thick x 2'x 2'blue some kind of gell pad to put the generator on. It sure cut down the noise. Plus fantastic coffee every morning.

paulj C250WK #719

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 11:28:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[i]... running a laptop or lights all night. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This would not solve your basic energy storing/generation issue but in general a 12-V laptop adapter (usually called an airplane adapter) would be more efficient than an inverter and AC adapter in tandem. Plus that way you'll always have power regardless of whether the generator is running.

I use a combination AC/DC adapter when I travel, can use in on AC and airplanes (have not used it on the boat yet, I go there to escape the work laptop

)

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 13:08:47

Paul,

Your type size is CANDY for these old eyes, thanks

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue,N.Y.

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britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 13:24:22

If you are using Explorer or Mozilla's browser, you can increse most text sizes by clicking on 'View' then 'Text Size' and the selecting a larger size than the default.

Paul
Association Webmaster.

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 15:16:02

Rick,
I keep my boat in the slip year round, the slip don't have power so I rely on my solar panels to keep me juiced. I have 2 deep cycle 27 battery's and have switched my interior lights over to LED's as well. I run all the standard stuff, GPS/depth, VHF, CD Player, Small DVD player, Autopilot, also have one of those 12v adapters for my laptop with a highspeed air card. I am frugal of my electrical usage, I don't leave lights on when I don't need them etc.. The solar panels have kept my batteries charged and have not let me down yet.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 03/31/2006 15:17:18

takokichi
Captain

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USA
321 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 21:57:24

Rick - the outboard I'm giving you has charging capability.

On tako kichi, we never charged the battery other than at the beginning of the summer. We had much higher electrical loads that you will - autopilot, big stereo, more lights, etc. Wasn't an issue.

I'd skip the solar panel. They don't work well up here. You won't get more than 20% of the rated capacity with any reliability. When I worked at West Marine, we got many unhappy returns due to poor performance. Its a product of low sun angle.

The generator always intrigued me but I kept concluding that its was more expense and hassle than was justified. that and running it on the anchor or mooring will not win you any friends.

I think the answer is a jump starter pack. Charge it. Bring it. Hook it up to your electrical system. Repeat. Cheap and portable. You'll have more than enough amp-hours to get you through a weekend, even extended. At the very least, its worth a try before you spend the bucks on something bigger.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2006 : 08:47:21

Would you consider wind generation? A little more pricey than gas/diesel generators but no problem with emissions.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue,N.Y.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2006 : 10:49:23

I have 2 50 watt solar panels and they are more than sufficient to keep the house batteries charged. I generally only use the boat on weekends, but on a 2 week summer cruise. the sollar panels still did the job, including use of a laptop computer for 2 hours a day, and the tiller pilot for up to 6 hours. I do not have any "big" loads like refridgeration, air conditioning, or microwave oven. If you need to operate something that draws more than 100 watts, like a microwave over or A/C, your best bet is probably a small Honda 1000 generator. These are portable and don't take up too much room. The generator is really nice when you need to run power tools with high-torque motors like a 10" table saw . Most small inverters can't handle the startup surge of a table saw motor. Do you use your boat year-round? If so, then you probably won't get enough power out of solar panels in the winter months.

Edited by - on

takokichi
Captain

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USA
321 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2006 : 17:43:18

As to wind generators, they're not viable here. There isn't enough wind, enough of the time, to spin them

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2006 : 09:02:46

I've decided to get one of these. A Zantrex Powerpack 600HD for $160 @ Amazon through InvertersRus. I like the ability to be able to remove it for race days, yet it will run an electric drill or dremel. Also, I can recharge it in my truck while driving to or from Falmouth.

I'll let you all know how it works out as the season progresses.

May 30 UPDATE: I've used this on 2 weekends now, this past weekend an extended stay. I've run an electric drill with it to finish my remount of the cabin top hardware. I've charged my cell phone a few times and run my laptop for about 1/2 an hour. It still shows a 100% charge and hasn't balked at anything.

July 25 UPDATE: I've finally had to bring the power pack home this weekend to recharge it. I've run the electric drill off of it countless times, as well as using it for other things like charging the cell phone, handheld VHF and watching a few movies on the laptop. What finally dropped it down to 40% was leaving it attached to my boat's battery to recharge that, the cabin lights were getting noticably dimmer and my instruments were occasionally showing the low battery warning when in use. That's essentially 2 months on the boat, mostly weekends, with quite a few overnights.

Edited by - existentialsailor on 07/25/2006 12:05:30

takokichi
Captain

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USA
321 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2006 : 09:55:59

Cool! That looks like a more elegant solution than the jumper pack routine I suggested. Plus, now we have power for an excursion to the anti-submarine base on Jewel. See - you don't even have the toy and its already being co-opted. Welcome to cruising...

So: boat left? Is it here? Are you coming here to tuck it in?

Edited by - on

saribella
Captain

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USA
286 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 13:37:26

The reason I like Rick is that he is so damned practical.................makes me sick. haha Great alternative item Rick, I am going to get one also!!

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 15:26:58

Does that Xantrax power pack hum or squeal or make noise while dispensing power?
I was on a friend's boat, and his gave off a very annoying high pitched hum. I don't recall the brand name but I know that he got it at Costco.

I've been using two deep cycle 12 volt marine batteries, a solar panel and a 100 Watt inverter. My main issue is that my solar panel is too small and too old and needs to be replaced, so I'm wondering if a battery pack or two might be a better option than a properly sized solar panel. I'm on a mooring ball and have been taking the batteries home occasionally to charge them.
We usually sail up to and away from the mooring ball, so the outboard doesn't get much of a chance to charge the batteries.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 16:16:04

Final Update:

We spent 3 days on Swimmer. My bout battery which is simply a marine branded 12 v wet cell has developed a dead cell, limiting it's usefulness dramatically. Being late in the season here, I won't be replacing it.
We just spent 3 days on a mini cruise on Swimmer with the 95% of the boats poer needs supplied by the Xantrex due to the boat battery demise. When I got the power pack home and checked the charge, it still had 80%. Granted, Swimmer's power needs are less than most, but that still is impressive performance to me.
In addition to the convenience of it essentially replacing the boat battery for the rest of our season.
Stampeder, to answer your question, I have never heard any noise whatsoever out of this power pack.
I am so plaesed with this power pack, that I plan to purchase one of their household back up systems for this winter as we loose power quite a bit. Not bad when it's a few hours, but when it gets to be a few days, that's a real drag.

If I ever do a full upgrade to Swimmer's electrical system including an outboard with charging capability, you can bet I'll be installing a Xantrex inverter.

Edited by - on

chriszzz
Deckhand

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17 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2006 : 14:56:59

28 Amps/Hours at 12V = 330Watt*Hrs.

This thing can run a 100W bulb for 3 hours.
A 15W stereo for 22hrs
A 50W stereo for 6 hrs.

SO---------------------

300W Version also from Xantec - probably much lighter.
20 AMP * Hrs, $90 bucks, (2/3 the power of 28 Amp*hrs)
http://www.4lots.com/xpower/xpower_300_plus/xpower_300_plus_powerpack.htm

Edited by - chriszzz on 10/12/2006 15:05:58

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