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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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As to wives and heeling...

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PamC
Navigator

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171 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/25/2005 : 11:37:40

I was just reading a thread in the C25 forum comparing the C25 to the O'Day 26 and there were a couple of references made to wives who are uncomfortable with heeling. I too suffered PMS - Panic'd Mate Syndrome. I was very squeally in the beginning

. Much to Dave's credit he was very committed to helping me get past it. Three things helped me:

1-We installed a clinometer so we knew the degree of heel. Something about knowing the degree helped.
2-I took a good look at the face of a clock. I realized that 30 degrees equals 5 minutes. So at 30 degrees the mast is pointing at 5 and the deck goes from 15 minutes to 20 minutes. This in combination with the clinometer helped me put things in perspective. Since we try to keep the heel to about 20 degrees anyway for performance sake, I've become much more comfortable with everything in the 15 to rare 30+ angles.
3-Last, but by no means least, we took a couple of weeks when the wind was light and I took the helm with just the main up. Dave stayed close by and didn't complain once about being bored out of his mind. I kept offering him the tiller and saying I would raise the jib so he could have some fun. He would always say "No, this is what we need to do until you're comfortable. If we need to do it for the rest of the season we will." Meanwhile I learned the basics of how to control the boat under sail (in case you haven't noticed some women have control issues

). After a couple of weekends of that I wanted that jib up! I still defer the helm on the more blustery days, but if Dave needs me to take the helm, I don't freak out.

His patience has really paid off. Now I'm on the lookout for more wind, learning as much as I can about sail trim and I'm the one who pushes to get out there and raise the sails. I even did a little single handing before last Saturday's race while Dave solved an emergency electrical issue. It may not sound like much, but when you consider how I used to dread raising the sails only 10 weeks ago, it's a huge difference in my life.

Just thought I'd share in hopes it will help someone else.

Pam
S/V "My Prozac"
1980 C25 SR/SK #1718

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2005 : 11:56:02

I guess Harvey and I are blessed to have wives who love to sail – (have been sailing longer, and probably race better than we do on most days)

Over the years, we’ve had guests on the boat who are concerned about the boat healing. . It always seems that the boat tipping over is the major concern they have.

I’m not sure I’m helping the situation any, but in those instances I tell them that it’s almost physically impossible for the boat to turn over on its side. That would require a very large amount of wind on God’s part or a huge error on the helmsman’s part and most likely it would require both. I don’t take inexperienced guest out in wind over 15kts because Lake Erie gets a bit bumpy and it can be uncomfortable, nor do I put up the spinnaker with those guests, so it would be really difficult to get the boat to dump. If for some reason I do take them out, it

I then tell them that if this does occur – don’t worry because it will pop right back up faster than it took for it to knock down. Which is a fairly accurate statement, the part about them still being in the boat is what I tend to leave out….

Pam is correct though, letting the nervous person take the helm is a big factor in alleviating the concerns.

dw

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2005 : 12:38:50

It's good to hear you're doing so well sailing, Pam. My wife enjoys sailing and enjoys the heeling to a certain degree, probably around 25 degrees. That's when she says "ENUF!" She is, however, hoping to take another woman out with her in mid-September and participate in our club's Women's Regatta. So the past two times we sailed she has started the engine, piloted us out of the slip, raised the motor mount and motor, lowered them, and piloted us back into the slip. So far she's only done this twice, but each time she came back into the slip better than I've done on many occassions. I did have to leap out and catch the boat each time because we were going to kiss the dock. Even if we had though, no damage would have resulted. The important thing was that she never really threatened to bump the neighbor boat.

The question now is, will I actually trust her to take the boat out without me when the times comes for her to race?

My boat is my baby!

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2005 : 20:49:18

When Linda and I ran away together 20 years ago we sailed away on our Cape Dory 25. she has been a willing sailor ever since, but can't take more than about 3 days at a time. So last years 7 day cruise of the North Channel (a brief jaunt by my standards) was too much for her, especially when we had to motor into 6/7 footers in 30 kts. When all three girls were seasick and and dogs were looking a bit green I fell off a bit and unfurled 20% of the jib. we flew off towards the town of Detour Michigan at about 7kts. We would try for the sail home to Neebish the next day. A dinner out that evening made avery one feel a lot better. Linda loves to day sail and enjoys a good breeze and I must say I have never seen her frightened.

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cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2005 : 21:44:37

I actually prefer to be at the helm when the weather is up (maybe its that control issue?). I still don't like heeling more than 25 degrees, but since that's not very efficient anyways I don't get much arguement from Dan about reefing or letting out the main or traveler to depower. The inclinometer also helps quantify just how much we're heeling.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2005 : 00:48:34

My wife hated the old Santana 21 I had. Tipped way to much and easily for her. since getting the Cat 25 life is quite different. A couple of years ago sailing in the High Sierra Regetta at Huntington lake there was a Moore 24 de masted, a holder 20 sank, and we had the sail hit the water. I never saw a bigger smile on her face as when we were in that race.

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tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2005 : 02:08:29

Pam thanks for sharing your experience. My wife has no issues with the heel of the boat but my daughter sounds like you were. She gets pretty scared and I do think it is a control issue for her. She does not like to try new things or feel like she is not in control of the situation. I've tried the logical approach. I've pointed out pictures of boats heeling. I've installed an clinometer. She took sailing classes this summer in a sabot. Yet she is still pretty uncomfortable with any heel. She loves to row her El Toro but dreads raising sail. I have tried to get her to steer the big boat but she only wants to do it under power. I think I will have to give your wise and patient husband's method a try.

Matt your story reminds me of Hobie racing days with my wife. We were a team, but I was the more intense member. That is until the race where her big brother was infront of us on the course. She transformed into someone I had never seen before.

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Gambit
Navigator

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USA
160 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2005 : 16:40:13

My wife is getting more comfortable with experience. She does not visibly freak out as much as she used to. Just easing the main by an inch or two will often release enough to settle things down. But don't discount the wide-bottom, no-slip wine glass.

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frogger
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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2005 : 17:27:47

My wife, not a sailer at heart but does like go with me, thinks of the inclinometer much like a tachometer - 15 degrees is equated with yellow, and the boat redlines at 30 degrees. Incidentally, we did survive a knockdown once by a sudden squall and then had trouble keeping the prop in the water in the extreme chop, even with the extralong shaft. Since then she has been a little gun shy but we've experienced no major problems since then, although I do try to keep heel to 20 degrees or less.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2005 : 22:58:28

My wife Mary, started out tolerating, maybe enjoying sailing. I even have some pictures of her at the helm smiling. At some point healing became a huge issue and she became adament about not sailing any longer. I've mellowed a bit over the years, added reefing systems and tend to reef early. In turn she has begun to go out with me on occasion. Last week we got caught out in 15 to 20 mph winds during a lake superior race. She had taken a couple of beers along to bolster her courage if this happended but she did't need them. Instead she went below and read a book. Amazingly she rode out the weather fine, we're still married and I expect she'll sail with me again. I guess the bottom line is that some people take to sailing right away and others take more time. Mary liked ghosting along in light winds. Now it seems she'll accept a little heal if I can control things better.
Have patience all you Captain Ahabs, ease the traveler and main sheet, or reef your main earlier than you normally would, and you may just gain a sailing partner.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2005 : 23:36:35

Pam's experience supports my contention that the way to get someone to overcome that fear is to help them learn to control the boat, so they can understand the way it reacts and, most importantly, what it won't do--tip over. I introduced my late wife to sailing on a Sunfish, where you definitely learn the relationships of wind, point of sail, sail trim, and ballast (you)--and you definitely can tip over! By the time we graduated through a daysailer to the C-25, she had become impatient with conditions that gave us less than 10 degrees of heel. It IS a control issue! Even if a person isn't controlling the boat, if they understand how it is controlled, then they will be more comfortable. Let them learn to sail, and they will WANT to heel.

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2005 : 03:01:29

I have to add this, I took my wife first out on a 65ft. cat down in the gulf. We had a great time on the boat, It was a charter, so all we had to do was sit back and drink our wine. I hooked her on the first trip and all see could talk about was when we were going to buy a sailboat. In 2003 we had our chance and took it. We purchased a 75 San Juan 24. It was known to be a very stable boat in winds over 20 knots, and we felt very comfortable on her. The second time we took the boat out it was blowing in the 25's with gust up to 30. We had the 150% up and the main reefed. The boat healed over, and at this point was being way overpowered. It was myself that was scared of the heal on the boat, It seemed that the father the boat went over, the more excited she became. Looking back on that Saturday in the fall of 2003 we had 3 other boats demast. The races were all called but we were out in the thick of it. Last Saturday we took out our new to us Capri 25. again it was blowing very strong outside, 22 with gust in the 30's. This time she was on the fordeck laying out getting a suntan, and I was at the helm, fighting the gust, letting the sheet for the main in and out to control the heel of the boat. We both crew on a racing boat thruout the year and we both have become good sailors, and crew. It has taken us both to a newer level of sailing that we could have never reached with out being out in the elements every other Sunday. We both now know what to do, when to do it, and the right times to say, hey lets go in a drink a beer :)

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2005 : 16:29:27

I firmly believe racers have better found boats and are better helm'smen and crew. It always tickles me when people advertise that their boat has never been raced, that just tells me that it has original hardware, UV destroyed sheaves, green halyards and is difficult to sail. Racing can't touch cruising for developing navigation or passage making skills, but on a lake it is the way to be a better sailor.

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2005 : 16:53:15

Admiral doesn't panic.....just gets mad when it becomes acrobatics to move around downstairs and stuff starts flying....so I try to keep it around 15 or so.....also so the A/P can keep up.....boats faster anyway's that way.

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618 )
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

Edited by - Oscar on 08/27/2005 16:54:10

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2005 : 18:11:07

I don't know about Catlina 25's and heeling, but I do know that when I keep my Capri around 10, it goes a LOT faster than when it is heeling more than that. Healing isn't an issue with my SO, she's an avid sea kayaker, so sailing doesn't seem to bother her, unless there is no wind. We have a strict "no bob" rule.

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