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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Katrina

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Eclecticaz
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/01/2005 : 01:13:43

The tragedy and subsequent folly or even the lack of the simplest attempt after viewing shots of the destruction-I'm wondering, why not float some of the sail and power boats that seem to be seaworthy in much of the TV footage and allow folks a shower, a dry seat, a portapotty?
Again-this was spur of the moment after watching too many hours of MSNBC and FoxNews of the destruction. I have relatives in N.O. and Gulfport (I've no idea if they're OK) and have been stunned by the lack of local govt control.

Edited by - Eclecticaz on 09/01/2005 02:00:36

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 07:26:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Eclecticaz
 I ... have been stunned by the lack of local govt control.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Everyone in that disaster area had better thank God they live in America. They may be in hell now but they have a future.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 10:18:52

Comments on the comments:

>"stunned by the lack of local govt control. "

A disaster of this magnitude overwhelms the ability of local and even regional agencies to deal with it. There simply aren't enough local public service personnel amd resources available.

Massive outside assistance is required to maintain any semblance of order/recovery services. It appears that the aid has been too little/too late in coming.

Given the lead time and the dire predictions of the PROFESSIONAL hurricane forecasters and disaster recovery planners, something has really gone very amiss here... and continues to head that direction.

I think there will be some hard questions asked in the near future about why some things didn't happen... in particular:

1) If you were poor and/or didn't own a car, you pretty much couldn't evacuate the area. Convoys of public tranport/natl guard should have been available and rolling. Far better (cheaper too) to have done this in advance than try to get the people out now.

2) Given the magnitude of the storm and forecasts, why wasn't the military and national guard
already activated with aid convoys loaded and ready to roll to the area? It took four days before they started calling up reservists.

3)Why was the Army Corps of Engineers/FEMA money to repair the levees cut off back in 2001? Without the flooding, the New Orleans situation would likely be managable.

>"... thank God they live in America. They may be in hell now but they have a future."

People living in other countries have no future? Other nations have dealt with far bigger disasters than this one and recovered. For example, on this day in 1923 Tokyo and Yokohama were destroyed by earthquake and fire... with hundreds of thousands of casualties and millions homeless. Katrina is bad... but is actually fairly minor when compared to other natural disasters worldwide.

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 15:00:50

it is far to us who stand on the sidelines and give alternatives to the past.

hind sight is always 20/20.

no disrespect to clambeach's comments but we can never redirect the past.

i am on the road today in houston and see the openness of what is happening with people starting to come here for shelter.

wow!!!!! our country is in what i think some tough times and disasters or overrated by media and corporations taking advantage of the situations.

it is a known fact that the raising cost of fuel is in the direct control of refineries. look at their profits in the past few years.

think about this question. if you have a true answer please post it, because i just don't understand why we are now even in more trouble with fuel.

why is this storm that came thru arelatively small portion of the gulf going to cause such a shortage of fuel for transportation and heating?

before you answer,also note the following.
there are 5000 oil rigs in the gulf alone. that doesn't include the ones on or near shore. also dosen't include any others in the california or throughout the country.
also, of these 5000 gulf rigs i believe about 500 were shutdown or evacuated.
seems to me we are blowing a whistle for a small amount of cutback.i also can't believe we produce and refine so close to the numbers that this cutback would create such a shortage,

now for an even bigger soapbox talk.

if we want to think what we can do for the future of saving fuel, why do we give the SUV manufacturere 4 years to design more efficent milage .ex: a new full sized gmc suv is rated at 14 and 17.
why do corvettes rate out at 21 and 27?

it' all a priority.we as consumers still drive'm.

i for one would love to have a gmc yukon to tow my catalina and for weather and work purposes.i drive a 4wd 2002 envoy that gets 17mpg anyway you drive it.
oh, by the way, i paid $34000 3 years ago. now it's worth $15000.

it's all in the demand of what we want.

if we are to save new orleans, i would not want to be the one to say that or give a direction on how to develop means to be sure it would not flood again.

it was an accident waiting to happen and we all knew it.
no different than earthquakes, tornados, landslides,forest fires and so on .,

we choose our beds and as americans i don't mind at all of helping do what it takes to care for the people in distress.

now about the reserves,unfortuntately our resevre forces are being killed in other countries defending others.

we see government cutting costs.

take on more of a soapbox note.

why do we build facilities for our next generation of young people at about $125 sf. the avarage cost of a facility to house an individual that committs murder costs $225sf. meals are the same relationship of costs. what is sad is that in our school system some cases is that that meal is the only good food that child will get today. that child could grow up and save your my life 15 yeqrs from now. can you say the same about the correctional program?

well, as i can see we are out of time for today.
hope you join us next time we need to fix the world.

this is one of my wifes motto's
" if it's breathing, it's important"

now, who box did i borrow

archie bunker

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 15:08:41

Lots of these good folks have heard all the catastrophic predictions before, since they never happened, they were not ready when the 'big one' really hit. No doubt there will be lots of major changes to the various contingency plans for all cities on the Gulf coast. I'd sure hate to have to right the "After Action Report" for this operation.

There is one thing the tsunami and Katrina have in common: our armed services (active, guard and reserve) are doing what no one else in the world can do, bringing rescue and relief to those who need it most. And, isn't it amazing, we can do it without the help of France, Germany, or the savior of all...the UN, none, of course, who have even offered any assistance.

Edited by - At Ease on 09/01/2005 15:09:55

JJM
Navigator

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USA
170 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 15:49:59

I would be very sad if the world community does not respond to a U.S. disaster as we respond to theirs. hmmmmm, look what I just found on the UN website:

UN offers help to US in aftermath of Hurricane Katrina’s devastation
1 September – The top United Nations emergency relief official has offered the United States the world body’s help in “any way possible” following the loss of life and large-scale destruction wrought by Hurricane Katrina along the US Gulf Coast.

Does our news media choose not to report on the outpouring of assistance that other countries and organizations are offering? If you care to look around the globe out there, you will see that others do care about the U.S.

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 16:30:06

The people of New Orleans, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama need help from all of us.
They are hurt and they are scared and fear brings out anger. They are facing devastating loses.
Please visit the [url="http://www.redcross.org/"]Red Cross web site [/url]and give what you can.

Underlined words are HOT links.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 18:50:21

The UN's offer is a joke...words are cheap, I'll believe it when they actually do something...it'll be the first time.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 19:22:48

At this point I cannot help but wonder if the residents of southern california are looking at whats happening in the gulf area and wondering 'What if the big one hit tomorow, what would happen to us?'

Sad but true, after a horrendous disaster such as Katrinas visit to the gulf, we do learn many things. Some not very nice, Some provide future benefits (Andrews south florida building codes) and some that we just won't/don't understand.

The people in the area of damage are most certainly suffering from Unfullfilled expectations, and Undelivered communications.

Both are prevalant at this time regarding this subject, and both are prime forces in the increase of frustrations of the people.

When people have nothing, and get frustrated, then they do things they would normally refrain from. We have learned that of the people in Iraq, and we should anticipate it in our own people.

The Red Cross helps... please help the Red Cross.

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 20:21:51

While everyone has their own point of view and arguing over which ones are valid could go on longer than the actual hurricane recovery itself, it seems that John G's post is the only one that belongs in this forum. Not that this isn't a matter of great emotion, personal impact and importance but I was clearly advised very early in my tenure here that there are plenty of places on the net to discuss politics and current events and that most members come here to get away from those topics. I've seen other boards degenerate into flaming wars over things like this and I'd hate to see it happen here.

That being said, the basis of Eclecticaz's question was boating related, "Why not use the floating or refloatable vessel inventory along the gulf coast to provide temporary relief for refugees?" My guess is that the majority of any boats that might be in the least bit habitable will likely have to be inhabited by their own owners since most probably don't have homes to return to. Of course, pumpout facilities are surely nonexistent so that creates additional issues. But I can certainly see where it would be a charitable gesture for boat owners with usable vessels to offer temporary lodging to a displaced neighbor or member of their community.

Steve

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 21:10:45

In fact one of the few places down there with power is along the shoreline on the Gulf. People are moving aboard a wide assortment of boats and firing up the generators.
-
Another thing. I'm a claims adjuster for the biggest insurer in the Country. North Ridge, Andrew, Hugo- we do these sorts of things for a living and we do it well. The size and intensity of Katrina was amazing and far more devastating to the infrastructure. If you look at what is now the 2nd biggest storm (Andrew) you see massive devastation in a fairly clearly defined path. City A was destroyed, but City B 25 mile away was OK and had power and hotel rooms. With Katrina the infrastructure for the entire region is nearing total failure. How can you send 1,000 or even 100,000 more cops/ fire/ linesmen if there is no water, accommodation, food, or communication? That’s adding chaos to chaos. It’s painful to wait while plans are made and systems are rebuilt, but it’s the best we can do.
-
This is also a time to reflect on your own personal preparedness. I you had to move onto your roof or into your boat tomorrow how much food and water would you have? Could you eat for a week? Or would you be looting the Safeway for old grapes and water by day 3?
-
I wish nothing but faith, hope, and courage to everyone in the South. I also send best wishes and strength to the thousands of claims adjusters, linemen, guardsmen, and volunteers that are as we speak leaving their comfortable homes to spend weeks and months in what could only be called a hellish place. Maybe I’ll see you at Café Dumonde.

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 21:25:30

wow doug!!!!!!
that is a powerful statement and as true as can be.
i can feel the pain here in houston, just as a visitor.

yes we all will suffer.
let's learn, grow and prosper.
let's not turn this into what we did wrong.

archie bunker

pskthe responses after mine have been unbelievable.
we are better people than the media make us out to be.

Edited by - on

georgiaboater
1st Mate

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USA
72 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2005 : 00:23:38

Well said....Doug and then Dave

How many of you folks in those initial responses (other than the boat idea guy)have ever lived in Waveland, Mississippi and traveled up and down all the streets of Bay St. Louis over the years and now wonder about the fate of wonderful former next door neighbors in those towns?

Now is the time to put aside our opinionated monday morning quarterbacking and pray and work together to support the recovery and rebuilding of a very important part of our country and its heritage.

Edited by - on

Eclecticaz
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2005 : 01:54:22

Wow...I'm really excited that my little question wrought such a bunch of replies...I grew up on Pensacola Beach and remember being evacuated too many times. Prior to that, my father's family had owned/inherited what is now significant acreage on Perdido Key, AL. I know and love too many areas from Destin to New Orleans and most are now, sadly, gone- due to Ivan, Dennis and now Katrina. Unfortunately, these things can happen in paradise. I was on a 43' sailboat in the Tobago Cays when Charles formed over us last summer.
We're all humans here and family. If you have it, share it.
Hugs to you all and thanks for bending your brains with me over this calamity. If you're ever in Phoenix, give me a shout...I'm a fish out of water...

Edited by - on

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