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I'm in the market for a new main...suggestions?

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albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/29/2002 : 22:16:25

I'm in the market for a new mainsail.

I do mostly coastal cruising in the FL keys. 5knts of wind in the summer. 15 to 20 in winter.

I've been looking at www.thesailwarehouse.com mainsails. They're top of the line unit has 2 reefs, foot shelf, draft line, 6 oz cloth, full battens, cunningham for about $875.

Are all of these features necessary? They told me that full battens would really help me while running and reaching in light air. Is this true?

What should I expect to spend on a mainsail?

How will the boat improve by replacing an old baggy sail with a fresh crisp one?

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - albert on 04/29/2002 22:18:05

Edited by - on

Greg Jackson
1st Mate

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84 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2002 : 07:58:01

It is difficult to rationalize what features are "necessary", when there is nothing either practical nor necessary about a boat in general. Unless it's a work boat, the whole concept of a sailboat is optional. I think this is why many people are perfectly at ease with exceptionally blown out sails which had lost their shape years ago.

If you're like most sailors, the fun is greatly reduced when the boat goes more sideways than forward. This addresses your last question, what performance gains can you expect. If your sail is really shot you can detect this even if you have no experience in seeing the shape or feel of the cloth. All you need is a GPS and a compass. Sailing under main only and heading up as best you can, I suspect you will see that you can tack through an angle of about 95 to 100 degrees on the compass. If you watch the same action on the GPS you will probably note that you are actually tacking through an angle of 115 or more. A blown mainsail will be such a bad airfoil that it helps little on going upwind, and the leeway is awful. Another aspect of a new sail is a steadier boat and reefing in higher winds. A gust of wind on a blown sail will do little more than tip the boat. A gust of wind on a good sail will accelerate the boat more than heel it. A good sail with use the wind, not be used by the wind.

I had found that discount sailmakers have much better prices on simple sails. As you start to add features like a second reef and nice battens, the prices at the discount houses start to get really close to those of the brand name lofts. If you are going to get a full featured sail, I would suggest you use a local loft. Everybody makes a mistake once in a while. If it's a local loft, you don't have to ship it back. The other advantage of a local loft is that you can expect your salesman to be an expert sailor who will go sailing with you and provide free instruction on trim. Don't count on more than an hour with a C25 sail. If you outfit a 40' racer they'll sail with you for days, even crew your race.

To your basic question, full battens may help a bit on light air shape but the most common arguments for them are more toward ease of handling & furling, plus the extended life of the leach. The leach will not flap around nearly as much when you are luffing. The argument for ease of handling is pretty weak on a boat as small as a C25. The main can be quite difficult on a 35' boat, but there is just not a lot of canvas on the 25.

I selected the 2+2 option which lots of lofts are pushing these days. This is full batten on the top two and convention battens on the lower two. This provides nearly all the advantages, costs less, and is easier to deal with. If you have any conventional battens, be sure to use tapered battens. They make a big difference in shape and lower stress on the fabric.

I got new genoa and main last spring from Doyle and paid a little more than your quote. I had quotes from Sailwarehouse, North, JSI, a Hong Kong loft, and about 5 others. They all do nice work. There's a loft in CA which advertises in the Catalina magazine. He has a great reputation and actually acts as an advisor to Frank Butler at times.

Have fun,

Greg Jackson

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2002 : 11:21:11

We have two people in our marina that had mainsails made by North Sails - one at the Cleveland loft and the other at a loft in Texas. One was fantastic, the other was, well, not so fantastic.

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ (Ode to Joy)

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2002 : 11:28:34

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
We have two people in our marina that had mainsails made by North Sails - one at the Cleveland loft and the other at a loft in Texas. One was fantastic, the other was, well, not so fantastic.

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ (Ode to Joy)
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Being from cleveland, I wouldn't mind knowing which was which???

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 national Org.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2dc20b3127cce9cd2f45b211a0000004010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2002 : 11:30:01

Cruising direct makes a good product, they have a main listed for 519...

dw

http://www.cruisingdirect.com/cd/CD_catalog.taf?_function=list&category=11&subcategory=08

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 national Org.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2dc20b3127cce9cd2f45b211a0000004010" border=0>

Edited by - on

n/a
deleted

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29 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2002 : 12:39:14

You can save some money by doing without the full battens - they look good but that's about it. The second reef can also be done away with, at least for the std rig. The first reef is plenty small enough. Combined that's a total savings I would think of about $250 or more.

Andy P.
#5708

Edited by - on

Gary
1st Mate

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58 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2002 : 18:06:46

I' very happy with the new main I got from Atlantic Sail Traders at www.usedsails.com.

Edited by - on

Greg Jackson
1st Mate

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84 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2002 : 19:38:29

re: second reef
The second reef is essential for decent control in winds over 20 knots continuous. Most lake sailors will find better things to do in those conditions. If you're cruising, or sail in an area where high winds are common, a second reef is a really good idea.

re: good North loft and a bad North loft
It was probably 10 years ago that lofts were almost totally independent. Around 5 years ago, the common practice was either a common mfg site or else a common cutting. A good laser cutter was expensive, so each of the lofts would do the design, then send a computer file to the central loft with a laser cutter. The central loft would cut the panels out of the fabric, then sent them to the local loft where they were sewn and the sail was constructed.

These days every major loft goes offshore for their dacron sails. Between North, Doyle, Lee, JSI, and the rest, there are lofts in Barbatos, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Taiwan, and other places. The local lofts remain fully capable of doing modifications and corrections, but the basic construction will nearly always be at some far away place.

I believe that some of the small independent lofts will have their cutting done by SailRite, the people who make sail kits. They have a good panel cutter and will cut to order using other people's designs.

GTJ

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