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C25 SWING KEEL WIRE FAILURE

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bevandcliff
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/30/2002 : 22:56:59

I am sorry I did not find this website some time ago.
My wife and I are Australians living in Houston for 3 yrs. Back in Oz we were 18ft dinghy (Uffa Fox design Jolly Boat) sailors but could not find anything similar here and so purchased a 1980 Catalina 25 so that we can continue to get out on the water and pursue our love of sailing. We have had the C25 for 15 mths however due to work commitments we only took it out 2 or 3 times last yr.

Our C25 is moored in a fresh water lake marina and in Feb/Mar we took it out of the water and redid the anti fouling. Unfortunately I did not know enough about maintenance of these types of boats as last weekend the retractable keel winch wire failed at the swage as I was raising the keel and it swung back down to vertical but punched a hole thru the casing / forward seat vertical wall. Fortunately we were able to get the C25 out of the water and onto its trailer without running aground in the marina. We did have a lot of water on board however.

Later inspection revealed that the winch wire tube has 2 holes in a guide plate indicating that a previous keel retractable system had a wire rope passing thru a sheave fitted to the keel with both ends of the wire returning inboard of the boat. Does anyone still use this system?

Whilst I am confident I can fix this damage I would like to try and get hold of some structural drgs of the C25 so that I can understand the keel casing structural configuration and where the pivot bearing and fixing bolts are relative to the interior shape of the keel casing. I also want to understand what I can cut and not cut in the seat area in order to get access to the front of the keel casing so that I can rebuild it and ensure good adhesion to the old construction. Are there any tricks of the trade regarding bonding to the old fibreglass? Any advice as to f/g mat grade, epoxy type, filler required?

On inspection today of the underside of the keel I found that a small lump of the old gelcoat has broken away at the edge of the keel tunnel at one end of the pivot retaining plate. I think I will have to drop the keel down so that I can get access to repair this area although I don't believe that the pivot brg or bolts are damaged as the impact would not have been large enough. AIs there a special socket req'd to get to the pivot bolts as the clearance b/w the head of the bolt and the recess in the pivot retaining plate appears too close for a normal socket?
I have read the discussion re the procedure for lowering the keel and I will follow that method.
I will also take the opportunity to inspect the pivot pin. Does anyone have the general dimensions of this pin?

I would very much appreciate any advice regarding remedying this problem.

Thanking you Cliff Rothwell

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2002 : 23:21:40

Cliff,

G'Day Mate! Sorry to hear about your troubles. Have you seen the parts manual drawing for the swing keel? http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/pc13.gif

This is an item in the Tech Tips section concerning trunk repair that should be helpful.
http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/dragn2.html

Here is a pic of the pivot pin.
http://www.catalinadirect.com/c-25%20keel%20castings.html

Here are some more swing keel drawings.
http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/tt001.html

Even more drawings.
http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/tt004.html

And if you are really ambitious, check this out.
http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/wingcon1.html

Don Lucier, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 05/01/2002 01:45:57

Edited by - on

mobile homeless
1st Mate

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25 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2002 : 23:32:12

Don, thanks for putting a link to this diagram; indeed, I had not seen it either and it was a big help in fully understanding how the device was configured in the C25. Thanks again.

kh

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 02:09:03

Cliff, I am interested in hearing more about the cable setup you discribed. It sounds like you think that the cable went down the tube, around a pulley mounted on the keel and then back up to the winch. This would provide 2-1 purchase but would also bend the cable pretty hard going around the pulley, causing excellerated wear. I think that what you may be seeing are two holes in the tube that may be missing the turning ball that directs the cable down the tube and keeps the cable off the fiberglass. Am I reading your post correctly? You may need to look at the bottom of the boat where the cable leaves the tube and check for a deep groove cut by the cable. This post reminds me to check my cable.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 09:15:48

Glad you were able to pull the boat in time. We have no trailer storage or travel-lift at our marina which would leave anyone with a sudden/catastrosphic event like this with little means.
It appears that you've already recognized the potential value of this site. In short, whatever information you can contribute about your repair process would only add to the site's usefulness.
Good luck.

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ (Ode to Joy)

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 09:54:49

Hi Cliff,

Take a close look at page 13 in the C25 Parts Catalog that Don sent the link of.
http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/pc13.gif

Notice that the cable does NOT double back on a pulley. Rather, the two holes you describe are to receive the pin that holds a brass turning ball inside the keel cable tube. That brass ball keeps the cable from damaging the fiberglass trunk as you lower or raise the keel.

It sounds like a previous owner decided to remove the ball for some reason. Check the keel trunk for damage.

You also might take a look at the article I wrote regarding replacing the swing keel with a wing keel retrofit. Whether you decide to go the wing route or not, the part that describes dropping the swing keel out of the hull might be helpful.

http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/wingcon1.html

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Kelly
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 19:12:43

Cliff,

Sorry to hear about your troubles - recently has a sim0ilar experience, but got lucky - taking boat to marine for bottom inspection and happend to check cable before putting keel down - very frayed - got it out of the water and then put the keel down - sure enough, snapped on the first turn! While replacing this, decided checking the keel pin would be a good idea - there is one posting on this forum re: replacing keel pin that provides a lot of great advice regarding lowering the keel - try there for more info - was very helpful to me.

Edited by - on

bevandcliff
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 21:32:06

I just got hoome and opened up the Website. I want to thank you all for yr interest and response to my problem. I will responmd to yr comments as follows.
The websites for the drgs and the method for repairing the keel trunk are extremely useful to me. The drg of f/g mat lay up configuration is also helpful. Catalina Yachts (David Glass) was most helpful and faxed me some of these drgs. I have read the method for lowering the Keel using allthread. Has anyone used this method? What are the lessons learned? I will be developing a method this w/end as to how to prop the Keel on the trailer once I have lowered it away from the trunk.

You guys are correct - what I thought was a plate with 2 holes is the turning ball. I did learn however from The Foredeck yesterday that the rubber tube that fits over the outlet where the keel wire comes up, should be secured to the nipple with 2 not 1 hose clips to ensure against relaxation of the rubber over time and mechanical failure of the single hose clamp. They have/recommend hose clamps which are smooth on the inside surface that mates with the rubber and has the worm grooves on the outside.

I am not familiar with the "wing" keel retrofit but assume that it is probably another Aussie first stolen by the American's! I will read yr article over the w/end.

I will eventually post all of my drgs onto the website together with a summary of how I tackled the job and what I would do differently next time. Does the Association have a specific site where this sort of info could be deposited for everyone's access?

Once again thks for yr interest and contribution - this source of knowledge exchange gives me the confidence that I can make a successful repair first goio at it.

O

Edited by - on

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