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Lowering mast

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Kelly
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/01/2002 : 19:16:49

I need to lower the mast to repair/replace some standing rigging. Want to bring the mast down on forward pivot and lay it across the bow pulpit. Then, I can access rigging from shore (boat is slipped bow in). Any advise on controlled lowering of mast in this fashion??? I'm pretty small - 5'2" - How much muscle/many volunteers do I need to bring the mast down in a controlled fashion and get it back up???

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 19:20:22

Kelly,

Are you replacing all of your standing rigging or just part of it?

Don Lucier, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

Kelly
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 19:24:10

Don,

Just parts - the outside port shroud has a cracked swage fitting and so does the headstay. Given that those two problems exist on the deck, though, I want to get a good look at the rigging up top just to be sure there are no major problems - just got the boat and prior owner was not real serious about maintenance and inspections.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 19:40:55

If I were only replacing a couple of pieces, I would be tempted to just shimmy up the mast instead of dropping it, but since you want to give everything a good once over, then it is probably best to drop it.

As for how much muscle is needed to lower/raise the mast, I don't really know since I'm somewhat new to Catalina 25's. On my Venture 25, I used to lower and raise the mast singlehandedly, grunting and groaning when the need arose. As for how many able bodied persons required for a Catalina 25, I would think three would be a good number. Two people could handle the mast, while the third can scurry around untangling shrouds and halyards.

Don Lucier, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 20:23:40

I step my mast from bow to stern. Just like you want to drop yours. I can do it my self, I'm 5'10" but it is much easier with two. It makes a difference as to which mast you have. Mine is the standard. The tall rig is much heavier. That one needs at least some sort of M/A to lift. But to lower it friction is all you need. Three strong souls should be able to the job.

Things to think about: Enough space forward of bow on dock (with the mast in it's step it will extend about 15' off the pulpit), beer iced down and ready

1.Just leave the sidestays and forward lowers attached. (leave mast through bolt in the base! very important)
2.Remove the aft lowers.
3.Have someone hold the mast while the backstay is removed.
4.Use your mainsheet attached to the backstay for lowering control. (be sure there is enough line to make the run)
5.Allow the mast to go forward with each person in line taking on more weight. (when you reverse this to lift it have someone ready to free up the rigging as it will hook on to just about everything in it's way)
6.Have beer ready to reward the crew <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>(also helps to get them back when ready to step the mast)

Think it through and be safe. It's really not that hard. Good luck and let us know how it went.

Mark-
<img src="http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/l/c/lchaplin/unkarock/usflagwav.gif" border=0>
'Impulse'
C25 #533 DINN/FIN ~_/)~

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 09:42:12

Hi Kelly,

You might want to take a look at a Tech Tip submitted a few years ago that describes a "Huntington Rig".

http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/nymastup.html

With the Huntington Rig, you use the boom and mainsheet block 'n tackle to help raise and lower the mast.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 11:42:50

Hi Kelly,

In addition to the site suggested by Bill Holcomb, showing a Huntington Rig, look at http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/bsmast.html.

This rig uses the same backstay-to-boom-end approach as a gin pole, but it does not require installing special shrouds. Lets call it the Morleys method, because of the name of the lines that keep the boom-end in the center.

When you go to the site and look at the drawings you will see what I mean.

If you really want to lower and raise the mast by yourself, as I do, you may wish to add two additional stabilizing lines. When the mast is at about 45 degrees, it will tend to wander to port or starboard, depending on the list of the boat, your weight, waves, etc. Can be exciting. So I have a line on each side of the mast attached to the spinnaker car, running down to a turning block attached to the base of the stanchion that is at the same distance from the bow as the mast base. The line then goes aft near the stern to tie off on a cleat.

With this set-up you have all the controls at hand to lower/lift using the mainsheet purchase. You have the two Morleys to control the side movement of the boom-end. You have the two mast stabilization lines to prevent movement side to side. You can make small adjustments to the rig as you change the angle of the mast and movement of the boat will not jeopardize safety.

One more tip. I found that a support at the bow, that projects upward about 5 feet, with a v-roller at the top (like goes on boat trailers) allows you to drop the mast into the roller, detach the standing riggging, remove the mast-base bolt, then walk the base aft by yourself. I made mine from a 2x4, nailed galvinized strap to the narrow sides for extra strength, and fabricated a way to mount the roller at the top. You will need a short 2x4 at the deck to hold the bottom. I used a couple of carriage bolts with wing nuts for ease of assembly. Tie a line around the spot where the support and the bow pulpit meet just for security.

So, you drop the mast a little, so the forestay is slack, install the bow support and drop the mast the rest of the way into its roller.

To set up the Morleys, Mast Lines, etc. takes about 30 minutes and 5 minutes to lower the boom, caaarrrreeefffuuulllyyy!

Good luck,

Jim Williams
Hey Jude
C25fk 2958

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 13:46:21

Harvey and I lower and raise ours by ourselves without any help. (usually in 30 mph winds with snow flying horizontally but that is another story)

The direction you are choosing is in fact the correct one. If you are in the water, throw out multiple dock lines. Make sure you are sprung for and aft, have both port and stbd bow lines secure ect. If you are in a double dock, see if you can tie off your stern to the guy next to you as well.

The next main tip is to make sure DSBO (Stink boat owner) doesn't decide to fire up and cruise past you throwing a wake. As others have said, remove the aft lowers and then the aft stay (when ready) and walk it down. Once you remove the Aft stay, go forward and help your assistant.

Be sure to remove your boom and any aft lead lines going to the mast as well.

DW

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 national Org.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2dc20b3127cce9cd2f45b211a0000004010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Phredde
Navigator

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 20:30:04

Kelly, I just did mine for the first time this year. I used the Morley method and everything worked OK. Just me (big guy) and my girlfriend (small woman). No major injuries, no damage to other boats.

I had debated the butt bucket (bosun's chair) method but was sure glad I didn't cause of all the work that was needed up there. Plus, I'm a little more afraid of heights than I am of crashing masts. But do be a little afraid or cautious, that mast is heavy and an accident could be expensive.

Another couple pieces of advice:

- Another strong person would have made it much less tense.

- Calm days help. If you've got a lot of swell, it can get kind of dicey.

- Have plenty of length on the main sheet you've attached to the end of the boom. Mine was a little short, so we lost some leverage as the boom went down, and it made it harder to go back up.

- Use adjustable knots on the safety lines to either side. You want some tension to keep things from flopping around, but too much tension will stop you part way.

- Have some extra T-bolts. If they get kinked at all during the process, they'll bend easy. I replaced two that bent while lowering.

- Start early and give yourself time. My project took more than a month what with work, travels, and the need for several orders to catalina direct as I took the opportunity to fix the lighting and antenna.

Good Luck -

Phredde
Catalina 25
San Francisco

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 21:28:09

I guess I'm surprised about what I have been reading here about raising and lowering and the mast from the bow. I have a "new" 1985 C25 and the guy I bought it from taught us how to raise the mast by sliding it aft and raising it from there. What we do is to get the mast in the tabernacle and then using the boom vang hooked to the bow shackle and to the forestay and with me raising the mast and walking forward with my wife pulling on the boom vang we raise it. I have to say it is a very, very heavy mast and with a foil on the forestay it has made it even harder, but it seems like with walking space it would be better raising it from the stern. Is that so? I'm curious about any thoughts on this.

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 08:21:33

When the boat sits in the water, or on a cradle or Jack stands, the bow is higher than the stern. Ergo, doing it your way is going uphill. Not to mention that big step from the cockpit to the cabintop with all that weight on your shoulder. According to the original owners manual, yours is the preferred method. We have just found it easier to come from the other direction.

DW

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 national Org.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2dc20b3127cce9cd2f45b211a0000004010" border=0>

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 11:13:17

Leigh-Marie: Since 1983, I have raised and lowered my mast several times each season, usually for trailer trips to the San Juans. We use the boom vang as a "stopper", and lower it aft as well. It works fine, and I have done it with just my teenage daughter on the vang. What helps us is a "mast crutch", an adjustable mast holder that attaches in the gudgeons with the rudder removed. I extend it up and lock it in position so that the mast is actually above my head when standing in the cockpit. With that much advantage, I can muscle it up from the coach roof high enough that the boom vang has enough leverage to help. That way, I avoid the "climb" up from cockpit to coach roof. Lowering is just the reverse. I never get into the cockpit until the mast is already resting in the crutch. It's sometimes nice to have a third person there to untangle any shrouds, etc. that might hang up on cleats, etc. I second the notion that calm conditions help! Good luck.

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 12:18:16

Gary, did you create this "mast crutch?" And what did you make it out of? I was thinking of some type of 2 x 4's with a roller or something that I could walk it up as I walked toward the bow, but I'm not sure it would work. I also wondered about making something like that that would be based in the floor of the cockpit with a base frame. I bet in making such a crutch you could use the both of you to get it in there and then have the second person go forward to the boom vang while you push up from behind. If you had any drawings or pictures it would be much appreciated.

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

n/a
deleted

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29 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 15:00:09

Catalina recommends lowering the mast aft. The two person method they describe is very simple and makes no use of stays or a gin pole, but in truth the second person needs to be on the stronger and taller side for quick work. If this doesn't describe anyone you can hoodwink into helping, I would suggest building a simple gin pole (about 10 feet is a good length). Now it's the pole that carries the large (initial) weight and so the second person needs only keep the mast (and the pole) from swaying. You can even go further and use stays on the gin pole at which point you can do away with the second person altogether. A very nice gin pole can be made with a 10 foot section of fence post (around $5 at home depot) and a few scraps of 3/4" plywood. The plan of using the boom as a gin pole is dubious considering that the gooseneck is not designed for compression loads, being just a hinge, and lightly constructed too.

Andy P.
#5708

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LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 22:25:44

Unfortunately I don't know what a gin pole is, nor what it looks like. Is that something else I need to learn? Is a gin pole something that is on the boat, or is it some type of auxiliary pole?

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 22:45:19

A gin pole is a pole that is used in lowering and raising the mast. In my marina, the gin pole is fixed in place at the launch ramp and has a rope and pulley attached to the top of it. The rope is tied around the mast, usually at the spreaders, and gently lowered or raise in place. Gin poles can also be any pole(boom, spinnaker pole,...etc) that aids in raising or lowering the mast.

Don Lucier, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2002 : 22:10:55

Thanks for the explanation. I'm always learning!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2002 : 23:49:07

I also drop mast to stern singlehandedlyand use a crutch made with
2x4. The boom is used as ginpole off the spinaker car. The set up
is similar to the Huntington rig, but drops the mast aft. See Jim
Williams post above. My system is similar except mast drops aft.
The forward lower stays are the ones that are completely loosened in
this case.
However, I reconnect them to some lines that go to a convenient
stantion where it is rove thru a block and back thru the deck organizers and clutches. That lash up controls absolutely the sideways
swinging of mast after it begins to pass 35deg. The mainsheet purchase system is connected to bow and end of boom to lower/raise the mast. The sheet runs aft to the cabin top winch. This also give total control of lowering/raising. You will find that using various suggestions from people in the group will help you decide how you want to proceed. There's more than one way to skin....

Paul
Sparky C25FK79

PZ

Edited by - on

Mark Rials
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2002 : 06:58:32

Bill:

When using the Huntington Rig does any special brace
need to be in place at the gooseneck?

Mark

Mark & Pat Rials
C25 # 5450 "Garget"
Homeport Tampa, Fl.

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2002 : 14:30:41

Dave and Sharon: Sorry, just saw your post. No, I did not create my adjustable "boom crutch", it came with the boat (used). It is metal (steel, I assume) about 1" square. Another piece slides inside the lower 1/2 which has the angled "pins" that fit in the gudgeons. The top 1/2 has the crutch on top. It is drilled so that I can pin it in place with a 1/4" bolt after it has been raised. Another method would be to make a crutch from a 2x4. You could make it, say 7'tall or so and lash it to the stern pulpit for use. I wish I could tell you where my metal one came from. If I could weld, I think I could sell a bunch of 'em!

Gary B.

Edited by - on

Herb Pollard
Deckhand

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1 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2002 : 18:51:10

As a trailer sailor in an interior state, I am accustomed to stepping my mast almost every day we sail. I have observed a lot of different mast-stepping techniques, including some factory equipment supplied with the water-ballast Hunters that works fairly well. However, most mast stepping processes seem to involve several big people and some amount of loud swearing. On my C-22 I use a crutch made from an 8' 2x4 with L-bolts to hang in the gudgeons and a padded saddle on the top to hold the mast when going up or to catch it coming down, then I just muscle it up (or down)from the coach roof, it is quick and easy, but that is a small boat and I am a big guy. I used the same system, but had a more elaborate crutch on my US 22 that had a much heavier mast section. It worked, but some times I thought I would lose it or bust something - there is a critical point between about 45 and 75 degrees lift that is very unstable. However, I just bought a C-25 with a Huntington rig and it is the slickest, safest, quickest mast stepping set up I have seen and I highly recommend it. I think two small people could easily and safely step the mast for a C-25 with the Huntington rig. The tech site in the earlier post is a good description. For a few dollars worth of cable and snaps you will eliminate the risk of dropping your mast or injuring someone.

Edited by - on

Don Hood
1st Mate

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30 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2002 : 22:41:26

All of the advice is good. We step and lower (I hate the word drop) the mast forward and have had good luck. We use the boom/gin pole, mainsheet, Morley line method and it works well. I talked to Catalina Direct and they said that the gooseneck casting is really not strong enough for this method so next time I will make a gin pole for the job.

As others have said, think it through and plan your moves. We have a tall rig and I can lift it from horizontal but when it is thirty feet in the air leverage is not on your side...gravity is!

Good luck and let us know of any new tips that you come up with.

No wind to you (for your mast)

Don on Namaste' #1929 tall rig sk

Edited by - on

gfrazzle
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2002 : 12:32:37

Kelly,
If you plan to step more than once, check out the system at http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/bearsad1.html
I bulit the A-Frame from 1" metal conduit as pictured in the diagram. I made a mast crutch from telescoping PVC ( 1"/ 1 1/4") using 90 PVC elbows to form a roller mount on top. It took one afternoon to put together for about $15. Works great and I can step it solo although it would be a snap with two.

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