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Has this ever happened to you?

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Initially Posted - 05/01/2002 : 20:24:09

Last weekend we were in a club race. I don't know what the wind strength was but I know it was gusting to 20+ knots because we kept rounding up on the upwind leg. There were 4 of us on the boat. As a favor I was letting my guest, a very experienced sailor with much offshore racing experience, act as captain. In hindsight that was a mistake because he was totally unaware of the handling characteristics of the 250WB in high winds. When I have the helm and the mainsheet I can generally play around with the wind bursts and avoid rounding up. In any case, as we were on the down wind leg and at the point of gybing to round the mark a huge burst of wind hit us and we broached ( I think that is the proper term). Luckily no other boat was on our starboard side or we would have plowed right into them. For a few seconds we were completely out of control. I definitely do not like that sensation and it made me wonder what would have happened had we been offshore with a following sea of any size? Both the jib and the main were fully out and the centerboard was probably half way up. I know now that we should have reefed. My reaction to this for a couple of days was to go back and think how much it would cost me to get a boat with a real keel - new pickup truck etc and finally decided to stay where I am. Has this happened to anyone else?

Thing Wind

Edited by - on

jkey6
1st Mate

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71 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 21:00:53

Most of us have done this at some point.

I have done this twice, both times unreefed on my trusty old C22.

The last time was with my wife, 2 kids, and father and mother inlaw on board! It was a lazy summer day (not for long). We were running back to harbor when we were caught by an approaching storm. The wind went from 5 to 25 in minutes. I was low on fuel and did not have a furling jib so left up the Genoa.

Yeah, I know, if you think of reefing then reef... and never show off. It had been slow all day so I was looking forward to getting the rail in. I was definetly complacent and once the wind started to howl, I had no one to man the helm while I skated to the foredeck to hank the genoa off. So I rode it.

My younger son, at that time about 6, later said " you don't know how to drive a sailboat." and he was right.

My mother inlaw will not go back on baord, but my wife and kids shook it off easily.

When you first think of reefing, REEF.

JKEY, C250WK, 'All Keyed Up'

Edited by - on

Tray
Navigator

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Namibia
224 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 21:14:06

It happened to me on my first underway with the wife. I related the story on this forum when it happened. Needless to say, I learned very early that reefing is my friend.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> Last weekend I got a little cocky and shook out a reef that I shouldn't have, and the boat let me know I was stupid. I went from making 4-5kts with little heel to a very uncomfortable 2kts heeled too far over and rounding up with each gust.

Tray
C-250WB #554
"Weeny Bean"

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 22:37:58

Did y'all know that if you control the roundup you can use it to claw to weather another 1 or 2 boatlengths - very useful when racing!
Derek on "This Side Up" C25 #2262

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Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 09:32:35

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Did y'all know that if you control the roundup you can use it to claw to weather another 1 or 2 boatlengths - very useful when racing!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Derek could you explain the control part?

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 12:32:41

Ray - after crewing on Steve Steakley's C250K I'm not sure you can control it on a 250...!
On my C25TRFK, when we get clobbered by a gust and the bow starts to move to weather, I ease the mainsheet about a foot or more and counter the excess heeling with a little weather helm - then I let the bow keep turning to weather, partially bringing in the main slowly to keep it driving. As soon as the gust lets up I retrim the main and get back on course, by which time you've moved to weather but under control. I haven't had a full-blooded round up in several years despite being on a very gusty lake. (It's hard to explain unless you see it done - an extremely experienced racer from Annapolis taught me when he helmed my boat). He also taught me how to "scallop" the boat - but that's another secret <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

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mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 17:29:18

I'm not a racer, but I've used a similar technique described by Derek to keep from rounding up when a gust hits. If it's gusty, I usually keep the end main sheet in hand and start easing the main as the wind increases. Usually you can see a good gust moving across the water towards you and prepare. The main will luff some, but you can usually stay under control and maintain your heading. If you can't stay under control this way, it's a sure sign that it's time to reduce sail. And it you're getting knocked down like Dietmar, it's time to head for a hurricane hole!

Max Day
C250 WB 380
Lake Pleasant, AZ

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 06:47:51

THANKS, I WILL WORK ON TECHNIQUE.<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628

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Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 22:28:52

A very important maneuver that every sailor should practice is how to HOVE TO.

When I had my C-22 I learned this skill on the driveway. It's not difficult and can be done in a pinch. I always hove to when I want to reef.

Then came the day when I was on the outside on a broad reach in eight foot seas and twenty-five knot winds. There wasn't an anchor bracket or a chain locker on the C-22 and the hook was about to fall over the rail which would have been a disaster in that kind of wind.

So I got my courage up (I was sailing solo) and hollered out loud, "STAND BY TO HOVE TO!... HOVE TO!" and went for it. You know what? It really works. I was able to leave the helm and remove the anchor. And while I was at it, decided to reef which I should have done from the get go.

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk

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jkey6
1st Mate

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71 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2002 : 09:17:01

Ben,

Please list the steps you make to Hove To?

Ever done this in your C250?

I have never tried this maneuver but it is found frequently in sailing texts.

Thanks,

JKEY

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2002 : 10:31:17

Heaving too... works fine on the c250 and is an important sailing manuvre which should be mastered by any skipper.

It was so easy to do it on my old Hobie Cat, that it was actually an often used racing tactic. Hove to (park) just behind the start line in an advantageous position and then five seconds before the gun, the crew crosses the jib and your off. A cat accelerates very rapidly.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2002 : 13:04:44

Jamie,

What Arlen was doing with his Hobie was "heaving to," but there's another technique that is useful in that situation. It's called "lying to." You point the boat in a direction so that the wind is blowing from a point just forward of abeam, and then let out both the jibsheet and mainsheet fully, so that both sails flap. The boat will stop and drift gently downwind. When you want to start off, you just pull in both jibsheets. Lying to is a technique that is used only momentarily, because it is difficult to hold the boat in the correct position for very long. If I find that I am approaching the starting line much too early, I will cause the boat to lie to, and use up some time, and then get her moving again in time to hit the line with good speed at the gun.

"Heaving to" is a similar technique that is used for various purposes. For example, if you want to make the boat's motion more calm, while you tuck in a reef, or use the head, you can heave to. To do so, you begin by tacking without freeing up the jibsheet. Next, you let out the mainsheet until it is luffing. Finally, push the tiller hard over to leeward, and lash it there. The force on the wind-filled jib is approximately counteracted by the mainsail and the rudder, and the boat will drift slowly to leeward. The keel, which is more-or-less sideways to the line of drift, slows the rate of drift.

Heaving to is also used in a run-of-the mill storm (as opposed to a survival storm), to allow the skipper and crew to rest. In that case, you do it the same way as described above, but you will be using a storm jib and heavily reefed mainsail.

Incidentally, I like the way Ben shouts commands to himself, when he's single-handing the boat, and then replies to his own command. There's a man who really understands the "chain of command!"

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/04/2002 13:43:26

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jkey6
1st Mate

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71 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2002 : 22:48:49

Thanks Steve,

I'll look it up in my Chapmans as well.

Weather is getting nicer, should have a few good chances to try this out soon.

JKEY, "All Keyed Up"

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ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2002 : 00:14:43

OK, I am late on this post but it is important to note:
before we left the dock for the race on my 250wk I mentioned to Derek that maybe I should reef the Main. He shook it off since he would not even consider it in such winds on his 25. So off we went and as soon as we raised the main and about a 110% (roller furrled 130) jib then wee healed immediately to 30 degrees. Derek was amazed how tender the 250 WK is compared to his 25. Derek then taught me how to have controlled round ups to scallop toward the mark. We were continually lifted to the mark, this helped us beat several boats much larger and with a lower PHRF. It helped greatly to have a crewman (Derek Crawford) to work the mainsheet while I concentrated on riding the lifts (controlled round ups) towards the mark. We placed 1st in all three races. I have since tried this by keeping the mainsheet in my hands during a race and it is very difficult to execute with the same smoothness since you have to deal with weather helm and the main sheet. It is best to train a crew member to manage the main sheet and the helmsman concentrate on the helm. If you are just out for a sail with the family consider the second reefing point!,
Steve Steakley
Moon Chaser #385

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mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2002 : 19:47:02

One other thing I didn't see mentioned is that Hove To is defined as a "controlled drift" .... so as Steve said you're actually drifting backwards with the wind while keeping the boat in a stable position. You can loose alot of ground doing this for very long if you're tacking towards a destination. I've found you don't need (or want) to backwind a full jib ..... roll it in to stormjib size or less and it works fine. Last time I tried this I just had a small corner of the jib out and it kept me HoveTo and relaxed for a liesurely lunch. It was a good thing I wasn't going anywhere, though, because by the time lunch was done I was quite a way downwind from my original position with just a moderate breeze.

Max Day
C250 WB 380
Lake Pleasant, AZ

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