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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Furlers Other Than CDI

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wmuchmore
1st Mate

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USA
56 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/12/2005 : 18:04:36

Greetings Sailors,

From postings on this website, I know that many of you have Harken and Schaefer furling gear on your boats. Can I have some opinions and recommendations on these units, please?

I want to replace the CDI furler that came with my boat because of the difficulty of changing headsails and lack of ability of adjusting jib halyard tension.

"Heads up" tips about installation problems would be appreciated as well.

Thanks.

Mike Muchmore
2028, Calamity Jane TRFK

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2005 : 07:43:54

I am an ex harken guy and never thought I would own anything else. I now have a CDI and have expectations for it beyond its design parameters. I insist that it be as easy to change headsails as using no furler at all. I have contacted LayLine.com and they have sent me 28' of [url="http://www.layline.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NEV1218"]1/8" New England V-12[/url]strand with 1" eye splices at each end. The line was only $12.50, the whipped eye splices were $13.00 each. $46.38 total. Here you see the new halyard with the old halyard as a messenger.

The Vectran is stronger than wire and as supple as silk with virtually 0 stretch. It runs through the sheave at the top like it had ball bearings.

The whip keeps it inside the slot. I will be using a harken 16mm 4:1 purchase for the down haul.

I will be changing my headsail based on wind conditions. I will not do it on the water for obvious reasons but at the slip it will be as easy or easier than my Harken was. I continue to be impressed with the CDI and I never thought I would be. The size of the foil is just right for a foam luff, the Harken is so small that a foam luff disturbs the air flow. And remember the only Harken worth having is the expensive one with the swivel on each end. The 00 only has a swivel at the top so it does not do the luff sucking trick that Harkens are really famous for. Other than the smaller foil cross section the 00 Harken has no real advantage over the CDI. On my 82 I had a spinnaker halyard, the block was always in the way at the mast head. With the CDI I still have my Genoa halyard free for an Asym or drifter.
I will be under the cost of a new rope halyard from CDI and way under the cost of a new wire halyard from CDI. If I can find a deal on the 16mm blocks it will be even cheaper!

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 11/13/2005 07:46:41

boatgt
Navigator

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117 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2005 : 22:32:17

Hello Frank,
I recently purchased a used CDI flexible furler to install on my c25. I was wondering if you had to have the forestay altered and also what would have to be done to my current headsail. I know I will need to install sunbrella on it for UV but wasn’t sure about the foam?
Thanks
Gene

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2005 : 00:55:10

You should not need to do anything to your forestay. I did not drop my mast to install mine. I simply shoved it up the forestay. I am having a sail made and am going with a UV resistant Dacron cover instead of Sunbrella, it is thinner and will create less drag. In my experience the stitching goes before the the Sunbrella... then the Sunbrella flogs and shreds. I should get 5 years or more from the UV Dacron and will have it replaced when it needs it. I think that a light air sailor should leave the foam luff off. I need it because of the amount of time I will sail reefed. I sail in fairly heavy air and my new 135 will be 7oz and cut flat with a foam luff so it will perform for me when reefed in 18+ knots

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2005 : 21:00:32

Mike,

I installed a Schaffer Snap Furl this past year and have had no problems with it. The biggest plus, in my opinion, is the size of the foil compared to CDI, which is more than double its size and weight. The reduced size of the Snap Furl pays dividends when raising and lowering the mast. It also forms a more stream-lined foil when under sail.
The only disadvantage is that you must use your only halyard to raise the genoa versus the CDI which has it's own integrated halyard.

Edited by - aeckhart on 11/14/2005 21:02:49

wmuchmore
1st Mate

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USA
56 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2005 : 23:04:16

Frank,
Thanks so much for the detail description and pictures. You are very helpful to all who ask questions on this website. It is much appreciated.
When you say you are using a downhaul, does that mean you are not able to use the halyard to adjust luff tension? Do you have to go forward to the bow to use the downhaul to tighten the luff?

Al,
Thanks for the recommendation on the Schaefer Snap Furl.

Mike Muchmore
2028, Calamity Jane, TRFK

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2005 : 08:09:18

I have wrestled with luff tension on my boat and on a Catalina 28 with a CDI, you must have a purchase to get adequate luff tension. You can do that with multiple loops of line through the tack or with free running blocks, I am going with the blocks so sail changing will be easier. I don't think anyone would try to adjust their furler luff tension while sailing, regardless of the brand. You can't really change the shape of the entry due to the foil, (foil sag is probably bad for any but the CDI), you can only have a wrinkly luff or not. So the down haul is for when you bend on the sail. It can be put either on the tack or the halyard. I will play with both but it will probably end up on the tack. With the sail at full hoist and the halyard made off it will be better to tension the sail luff with the down haul. The alternative will be to make off the tack and use the purchase to haul the halyard, it will be harder to have the head at the exact spot I want with that system so it seems less likely that I will do it that way.
Schaefer makes very nice products, I prefer their blocks to any other when weight is not an issue. The "Snapfurl" uses a round extrusion which is aerodynamically the worst shape possible to meet the wind, (a lesson learned early in the development of powered flight), the Harken kicks butt when it comes to foil shape. The SnapFurl has other advantages, like the ease to assemble it and the natural shape for furling, it is also very strong. I would be very happy with a Schaefer but would spring for the Harken MarkIII if money were no object.
Another comment on you primary goal of changing headsails; the "obvious reason" is that there are no hanks to hold the sail on the deck. A person would need a finely honed routine to handle a lufftape headsail change on the water without trained crew.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2005 : 15:43:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wmuchmore
 ...I want to replace the CDI furler that came with my boat because of the difficulty of changing headsails and lack of ability of adjusting jib halyard tension...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The ability to change headsails easily (although the manual for my Harken units says the headsail can be raised from the cockpit using the feeder?) and the diminished effect of tensioning the luff are just two of the trade offs one lives with for the convenience of roller furling.

Both Harken and CDI suggest that one should not over tension the luff (CDI says luff tension will be quite low), instead just tightening the halyard enough to remove the wrinkles along the luff of the sail. This is why CDI says that the sail can be setup for the season without further adjustment, which explains why they have you tie off the jib halyard with half hitches.

As far as the halyard tension on my Harken furler, I use just a moderate tension and, like Ron Popiel and his rottiserrie oven, ...I set it, and forget it!

Edited by - on

boatgt
Navigator

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117 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2005 : 00:03:27

Thank Frank,
This will be one of my many winter projects but it is nice to know I will not need the forestay altered. I will get some type of UV protection and go from there. Does anyone use a UV resistant sock or sleeve in place of having material sewn onto the sail? I will need to order a new halyard as well.
Gene

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