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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Fresh water tank freakout

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/13/2005 : 20:59:52

I have never put water in a freshwater holding tank. When I bought my derelict 89 last July I wiggled the whales and promptly ripped the galley faucet out to clear up counter space. One of my winter projects is to pull out the tank and hinge the compartment lid to make more storage. (On an 89 the water tank is where the batteries were on my 82, to the aft under the starboard settee.) This afternoon I started to pull the hose from the forward lower fitting and saw drips. I opened the tank and there was half a tank of water, (That explains my finish in the Nationals!), and scary black spinach. I had noticed black stuff in several of the hoses; the vent and forward drain. My Whale is still in place in the vanity so 30 minutes later (and after reaming the forward through hull), the water was pumped out along with some of the black stuff, (almost looks insecty). One; [url="http://homepage.mac.com/fhopper/PhotoAlbum112.html"]Please go Here[/url], (are you back yet?), how do I get this thing out? Do the fittings unscrew? They look like they are "stacked", do they all come out? Two; how scary is the black stuff to you? Three; is this tank worth trying to clean and store until I sell the boat, or does it need to be thrown away? I am clueless about this. One thing that seems apparent to me, hoses get nasty!

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2005 : 21:16:48

Frank - before you throw the tank away, try shocking it with bleach three or four times. When I bought my '89 in Virginia, the water tank had been neglected and was full of some nasty smelling algae. Four complete flushouts with a 1/2 pint of bleach over a two week period cleaned it out pretty good. I don't drink from the tank however - too risky. Tank water is only for hand washing; I always bring bottled water from home for drinking.

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Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2005 : 23:14:15

Frank, there shouldn't be any reason to throw the tank away. I had to cut out the plywood wall that is holding the tank in on my 77 to get the tank out. It wasn't going to come out any other way. I threw away all the hoses and bought new. I installed a 6" [url="http://home.wmis.net/%7Edhapp/beckson.jpg"]Beckson[/url] with a clear cover so I can reach inside the tank and scrubbed it with bleach. I created a system where I can remove the tank and scrub it out, along with the locker under and around the tank.
It's real possible that Catalina still slides the tank in place and then tabs in that bulkhead to keep it there. Taking out the bulkhead might be the only way to get the tank out.
Dan

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2005 : 09:20:51

Frank I've got an '83 and the tank may be taken out once the top seat is taken off. With the seat off the tank is held in place with molded styrofoam blocks, poping these out allows for the tanks removal.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2005 : 20:47:55

Frank,

I had the same problem on my 88 TR. After years of fighting mildew in the tank and hoses I removed the whole works and, as you intend to do, put hinges on the lid. The result is a nice storage bin. I will not miss the water tank since I quit using it several years ago. I plan on keeping the tank in case I sell my boat. I'll have to buy new hoses since I've trashed the originals. Go for the storage.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2005 : 21:46:50

Mine had an end panel glassed in. I cut it out tonight and pulled the tank. I am going for the storage. Tomorrow the hoses come out.

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Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2005 : 01:03:08

I use my tank water. Once a year I shock it with bleach. Two cups of the stuff down the filler cap and letting it sit for several hours does the job. I pump the galley and head so the hoses get disinfected. Then I pump out the bleach and rinse two times. It's just too easy to pump the coffee pot full for the morning wake up. I've never seen my tank accumulate any algae.

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tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2005 : 01:41:52

I can't imagine not having water on board. We use bottled water to drink but the sink to wash hands, splash in our faces to wake up in the morning, rinse our tooth brushes and clean dishes. I also try and keep the tank topped up. I figure if the big one hits we could be days without city water and those few gallons could be very handy. I also run water through the hoses each time I am on the boat. And finally I filter the water as I put it in the tank. When we got the boat the tank was filmed with black slime, not as bad a Franks though. We pulled the tank and scrubbed with bleach. We replaced all the hoses and cleaned the pump and have not had any problems.

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DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2005 : 10:18:37

The compartment lid is slightly curved, so I gave up on adding hinges. Please let us know how you plan to do it(with pics?).
We have the black gunk in the hoses and vents, so only use the freshwater for flushing the head. Filling the vanity sink, then pumping the head pulls the drain water through, past the T fitting at the bow thru-hull...wierd setup? I was advised not to use bleach because it stops the action in the waste holding tank. I'm thinking of flushing the hoses with bleach while the thru-hulls are open while on the hard. Anyone know of a lab supply house where you can buy a long handled tube brush?

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thaind
Navigator

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Canada
145 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2005 : 10:23:58

When I bought my 78 the tank had been neglected for decades. I used the bleach treatment, let it soak for a few days, plugged the breather cap on the tank, and left a hose trickling into the deck-fill for an afternoon. Under any pressure the whale tap flows on its own. We used the tank for drinking/washing last summer with no ill effects (could have been the Scotch that most drinks were mixed with?). It is easier to keep the tank in than to take it out and put it back.

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2005 : 19:44:43

My fresh water tank is getting better all the time. I have found the secret lies with the ability to USE the water. Nobody is going to go through the trouble of pumping the whale a thousand times to empty the tank. This should be done every week or so. I just put in a washdown pump that will, rise the decks, flush the outboard, and empty the darned tank. I am now able to dump, refill, shock, drain, fill, drain, and refill... in an hour. No pumping required.

I am now looking at hooking up the blaster pump to faucets at both the sinks. The way I use the boat leaves a LOT of water left every time I use it. That is the real problem.

The lines are an easy fix. Lowes sells the tubing by the foot. You rip out the old and put new in. Then Use the heck out of the water.

On my boat I only like to conserve fuel.........

Tom.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2005 : 20:40:22

Hi Tom, what is a washdown pump? Who makes them? Thanks Dennis.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2005 : 22:35:51

I agree whole heartedly with Tom about not letting water sit in the tank for long, and about the need for an electric pump to accomplish that. I converted to a pressurized fresh water system, and I'm very happy with it. So long as I don't let the same water sit in the tank for more than a month or two, it smells and tastes fine. If I let it sit long enough to take on an odor, I shock the system with bleach, flush and rinse it a couple times, and it's like new again.

-- Leon Sisson

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2005 : 23:03:53

I have a Jabsco Parmax pump. It is an automatic pump. It provides 1.9 GPM @ 25 psi. There are more powerful pumps available, but this is capable of doing everything I need. It was Around 80$ at West Marine. For now it is just a washdown pump. I plan on hooking up a galley fawcet in the future.

Tom.

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PamC
Navigator

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171 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2005 : 12:43:06

We also have an electric pump. A previous owner installed with a push button. The immediate p.o. liberated the push button from the front of the galley sink so it can be used with your toe while washing dishes, etc. And since it's not attached to anything it can also be closed in a drawer when you want to pump the tank out and do other things. We use the water for non drinking purposes just because I don't like the taste of plastic tanks, even new ones

I agree the key to a happy water tank is to keep the water moving through so it doesn't grow stale & invite the creature from the black lagoon in for a visit. Besides I need it full to counteract the famous list to port.

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Daniel
1st Mate

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78 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2005 : 16:54:37

Frank, I have hull #5946 and it is very similar to yours, minus the 'fridge and AC. I don't have self-tailers, which I'd like someday. Are those Lewmar ST14s?

I bought mine after it had been allowed to sit for quite a while. The hoses and tanks needed cleaning . 10% bleach is usually more than adequate for cleaning the water tank (bleach is corrosive so I don't like to use concentrated). I let several gallons of the solution sit for a few hours before pumping out. I pump the tank out with my bilge pump (faster than the sink flapper) with an old piece of clean garden hose and hose adapter to connect to the hose in the bilge. There might be some bleached 'crud' but several rinses got it all very clean and eliminated any detectable bleach. I have no qualms about drinking the water from the tank now (it gets a bleach solution rinse every spring which also cleans out the propylene glycol from winterizing) and on pumping in fall it has always been clear, although I realize that appearances are not everything. But I am not concerned about pathogens at least.

For rinsing out with clear water I made a small fitting with a short length of capped copper pipe that I had drilled holes thru. I attach this to the water hose and it sprays forcefully against the sides and bottom in many directions.

The hoses cleaned up very well by soaking in the same bleach solution (with small amt of detergent). I had to pull a piece of rag thru one to get some of the debris dislodged but they look quite clean now and have stayed that way for several years. Might be easier to buy new but I had spent enough and the hoses were still good/flexible.

I am not sure how to remove the tank but I like your idea of hinging the cover to make inspection easier. If you don't need the water at least it could be a good storage area.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2005 : 00:58:07

Thank you Daniel for a very cogent post. Thank you to all of you who have provided input on how to live with a fresh water tank. I have taken it out but someday it may return.
http://homepage.mac.com/fhopper/PhotoAlbum115.html
It is sitting, nice and clean, in my shed now. Dan, my hoses are very sticky on the outside, did your soaking deal with that as well? I am sure that I am looking at some buckazoids in total hosage.

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Daniel
1st Mate

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78 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2005 : 17:08:58

Hi, Frank:

Yes, the hoses were somewhat sticky. I cleaned them with dish detergent and they came out almost like new.

What kind of main winches are those on your boat?

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Cloudveil
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2005 : 18:01:46

Leon - I want to convert to pressurized system on my 89. Can you fill me in on the equipment items you utilized,
for pump, faucets, etc? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks -
John Wood
Uzamati - 89WK 5973

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2005 : 22:22:44

John Wood,<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I want to convert to pressurized system on my 89... equipment items you utilized, for pump, faucets, etc? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">It's been a few years since I did the installation, but I'll see what I can recall.

For a pump, I think I used something like a SHURflo 8050-204-033. I screwed a SHURflo strainer directly onto its intake side.

I installed an accumulator in the pressure side, maybe a SHURflo 181-203. Don't skip the accumulator. If you want to try to save a couple bucks, you could make one out of PVC pipe with some sort of heavy duty balloon inside.

I used the food service rated clear 1/2" hose with the reinforcing weave in it. All T-fittings, etc. are plastic if available.

For a galley faucet, I tried one of those very trick and expensive Attwood #6142-5 three-way units. What an agravating waste of money!

The thing always either leaked into the drawer under the sink, or dripped into the sink no matter how hard I turned it off, or how many times I reassembled the cut off valve. The final straw was when it dripped and leaked its way through an entire tank of water in the Bahamas.

I replaced it with a $7 chromed brass plain jane faucet I found in a hardware store in Marsh Harbour, just like the one I used for the head sink.

<center>- - -

for extra credit

- - -</center>

In addition to the minimum mods to go pressurized from a stock system, I replaced the stock tank with a semi-custom one including a 6" Beckson plate for cleanout access. I also added a flexible bladder in the lowest part of the port side 'dumpster' locker. I have two 1/4-turn 1/2" PVC valves to select which tank is in use. For deck fills, I went with the Scandvik(sp?) glass reinforced plastic ones with the built in lid opening key and retainer chain.

In the future, I plan to add a kitchen sink dish rinse spray nozzle on a long hose plumbed and stored in the port cockpit locker for (cold) showers. A greater fanatic than myself might also add a flash (on demand) propane camping water heater in line with the dish nozzle.

I routed the vent line for the rigid tank higher than the deck filler, so a fill hose left running can't flood the interior of the boat. I fill each tank until it overflows on deck, and then run a couple quarts out of the rigid tank to get the water level below the slightly leaky Beckson plate.

The head sink drain is 'T'ed to the head flush water intake, so it's easy to flush with fresh water on daysails by leaving the seacock closed, and running enough water in the sink to flush with.

-- Leon Sisson

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Cloudveil
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 12:15:00

Thanks Leon!! I copied your info and will go ahead this winter. I am also going to do the cockpit spray
setup, for salt water rinse-off, etc. Thanks again for the grat info.

John

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