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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Water in the bilge over the winter

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/25/2005 : 10:05:35

Hi All, the boat I just bought has about four inches of ice (now) in the bilge. How much damge is this going to cause over the winter? I have read in a many posts on this site that it is the swing keel attach points where is boat tends to leak. Is this true, then how much does the wing keel conversion cost? Cheers.

Dennis
No Boat
S.E. Michigan

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 10:27:18

Ice in the bilge of any boat is really bad news. You need to get that water out of there, and prevent any more from getting in there, at least until the weather stays above freezing.

The C-25 swing keels don't leak at the keel pivot. It's one of the most leak free swing keel pivot designs out there.

I leave it to others to provide an accurate accounting of the complete cost of a swing to wing keel conversion. I suspect a lot depends on what facilities you have at your disposal and at what cost.

-- Leon Sisson

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Esteban
Navigator

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139 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 10:59:24

I agree with Leon on getting the water out as soon as you can. In the mean time I would not sweat it. I usually check on my boat once a month during the off season and after some snow I will find ice in the bilge. It has never amounted to any damage - but it's best to get it out when possible. If you boat is like most 25s out there (especially those like our that have been around for some time) the leak is not from the keel. Your leak is more than likely from the windows or other deck hardware that ends up (down) in the bilge. Run down every so often when it's above freezing and pump that water out.

Congrats on your new boat! I think you will find it to be a great boat, well built and easy to maintain with lot's of parts available and great support in this site. Lot's of owners out there too willing to help!

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Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 11:02:52

Water leaking into our boats comes from the darndest places. After owning this boat for more than 7 years, it is finally and completely leak free - of course it is on a trailer at my house, too.

Water leaked from behind the rubrails. So they were removed and all the screw holes filled.

Water leaked from some of the deck fittings. So everything attached to the deck was removed and all of the holes drilled oversize and filled (also a very good time to check for delaminations, rotting and so forth. Amazingly, there was none after drilling oversized holes).

Water would intrude into the anchor locker and "back up" when the drain wouldn't let water out. So now the drain is a larger diameter pipe and the anchor locker access is sealed (just for the Winter season). There were unsealed areas inside the anchor locker that allowed water to reach the forepeak area, too. Now all that has been properly sealed.

The old style bow navigation lights had the potential to leak (but didn't) so now, they too are gone and their cutouts filled in.

After all this, still a few leaks!!! That leaves windows.....

All the windows are now removed. Heavy plastic covers their openings and plenty of tape to seal around them. (more about that at the end of this...)

The last time we had wind and rain, and when I have "drenched" the boat with a hose, no water intrudes - FINALLY!

note on windows: ...took the frames to a local auto restoration shop to be cleaned and anodized. They look very nice. I'll have the glass tinted dark for max UV blocking (will still use curtains, though) and before I carefully re-install them, every window frame cutout will be cleaned between the inner and outer hull laminates and filled with a glass filler so that IF a window should leak again, it will not be able to intrude through that path, into the boat.

Folks - of all the sources for water leaks found during this lengthy exercise, the windows were the worst and led to the most damage!!!

There was no other significant water damage to this 28 year old hull. Its stout construction and generous, thick fiberglass-over-wood bonding has endured seasonal abuse (Cold Winters-Hot Summers) as well as surviving highways (trailering to other lakes), trailer launchings, minor collisions and six (6) owners.

Hopes this helps. Sorry about this being such a - l e n g t h y - post.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 11:09:01

Freezing water can cause problems if it is trapped against boat parts and can't expand freely.

Unless there is structural hull damage due to some sort of 'keel wreck' the water (ice) that has accumulated at that point is from top-down leakage. Very common on older boats.

The first project on most any older C25 is re-sealing and re-bedding all the topsides hardware. This is long term maintenance and needs to be done every 10 years or so.
Not very expensive, just a project.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 11:25:10

Hi All, thanks for the data and advice. The last thing I did before I left the boat yesterday was to pour two gallons of the pink anti-freeze in the bilge so if it thaws, it will not freeze up again. The boat has a built in bilge pump in the cockpit right behind your calf if you were sitting down. I can't find and info on it, but it is a cover about 8" long and 1.5" high. It is really an inset and is pulled out. Inside there is a nub that a tube handle fits on and you wobble away. I cant find the tube handle and the previous owner just got a dumb look on his face when asked and didn't even know it was a bilge pump. Cheers.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 12:24:46

"La Tina Caliente",

(That's great name, with a hilarious story.) Checking out that original manual bilge pump (and getting it to work) is an excellent getting-to-know-your-boat exercise. I discovered that the plastic mounting points for mine were brittle and broken from age. I ended up installing a similar new pump, but with a different shape cut-out required. Since I was going to be cutting fiberglass anyway, I moved the new pump to just ahead of the port cockpit locker hatch (but still on the vertical surface). Relocating the pump makes it slightly easier to service, and in my case was part of a much larger and more ambitious plan to subdivide that huge locker (a.k.a. 'the dumpster').

-- Leon Sisson

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 12:39:53

Hi Leon, that is a great name for that compartment. I would like to divid it as well so the fuel tank is really seperated from the cabin. I was appaled when I lifted the back hatch and saw that the party boys had used that compartment for empty beer cans. Two full 30 gal. trash bags worth. When I was cleaning up yesterday morning, I noticed (but did not investigate) that in the quarter birth, on the port side, there looked to be a removable panel spaning almost the entire length of the birth. If I remove that, it is clear access to the dumpster? Cheers.

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danandlu
Navigator

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USA
175 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 13:13:17

"there looked to be a removable panel spaning almost the entire length of the birth. If I remove that, it is clear access to the dumpster?"

djn,
I read somewhere on the forum that this panel is structural and shouldn't be removed. I have seen where some have cut an opening for access from Qberth. Whether this weakens it or not, I don't know.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 15:33:04

No it is not structural, when you remove it you will see that it has not been under pressure. You might want to look over the different pages at my site, the link is in my sig.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 17:25:18

On the Capri 25, the bilge is inaccessable, so any water that gets in there by any means is basically impossible to remove. (There is a way, but it's irrelevant for this discussion since you dont have a Capri). You did right by putting the RV antifreeze in there. I poor 2 gallons of the stuff in my keel bolt access area and it drains into the bilge through a drain hole. This won't allow the water to refreeze and you don't know how much more is going to leak in from various places as Mark's excellent post pointed out.

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danandlu
Navigator

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USA
175 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 18:28:42

[quote]<i>Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com</i>
<br />No it is not structural, when you remove it you will see that it has not been under pressure. You might want to look over the different pages at my site, the link is in my sig.

Frank,

That's good to know.

You have an excellent site. I was looking at it last night but must have missed the bulkhead removal pictures. Your pictures are worth many words and many good ideas. Thank you.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2005 : 19:03:37

Hi Frank, I like pooring over all the mods and pics on your site. I hope that in time my boat will be ship-shape. I am droping the mast next week so I am preparing for that. All the wiring looks shot and I can't get the lights to light up. Have you changed the spreader bar sockets in your mast to stainless steel? Cheers.

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