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How does water get in throught the windows???

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/29/2005 : 20:20:42

And, how do I fix it. Should I take the windows out and reseat them or is it a caulk job on the outside. Thanks.

Dennis
No Boat
S.E. Michigan

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2005 : 21:08:53

If your windows haven't been re-bedded already, the window and frame assembly should be removed from the cabin side and re-bedded using a good marine caulk. While they are out, you might as well get the vinyl sealing channel for the glass and re-seal the glass itself that the same time. (Catalina Direct sells the channel). You'll then be good to go for another 25 years or so.

Don't use 5200 or other strong adhesive-caulk to bed the window frames in the cabinsides as you'll probably never be able to get them out again without breaking them.

I happen to prefer 3M 101 for a job like this, but other folks have used different products with good success. Whatever you use, don't scrimp on the caulk, make sure you get a full, solid bedding and clean up the overflow. You'll get a good feel for how much to use after the first couple windows.

This is a bit of a messy job, you only want to do it once.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 08:15:50

If you are going to do the job, best to do it fully, meaning disassemble the windows completely and replace the vinyl glazing channel. I tried the easy fix, re-caulking from the outside with silicone, and it only lasted two years before the right-rear window was leaking again. Cruising Concepts sells a retrofit window kit that uses surface-mount polycarbonate panels instead of glass; the product looks like it is leak resistant if installed correctly, but they are pretty expensive, someone said about $600 for all four windows.

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2005 : 14:31:40

Dennis,

This is a common problem...and a pain in the ass to fix.

I have rebedded two of the windows and one still leaks. I have resorted to tarping over the cabin top during the rainy season.

Yeah, I know, lazy Jim. This is one of those "roundtuit" things. I'd rather sail.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2005 : 15:28:08

After doing this project about 3 times, I think Harvey and I would definitely take a different approach.

The first two times we pulled the windows and recaulked once with regular stuff, and once with the 5200. This was before we even new about Catalina direct, the glazing channel, gaskets etc. Then we pulled them again when we found all the right stuff.

They currently look like shi### because of all the jacking around we did with them. Here would be my solution –

Order all new windows from another manufacturer, find the kind that adhere to the coaming and do not enter the cabin. Then finish off the inside trim with teak.

Since that isn’t exactly the cheap alternative here is what I would have done differently.

1. Order the glazing channel kit from Catalina Direct. Do not let them talk you into the “special caulk” it is life seal boat caulk, clear silicone. Get one extra tube.
2. Do not use 5200, 4200 or any other adhesive caulk. It will make a great seal, but cleanup is a PITA and the next time you pull the windows you’ll be cutting caulk off of them for days (not an exaggeration)
3. Over caulking is good, but work slowly so as not to make a mess. Have a cup of dish-soap around so that you can get a good seam around the outside part of the window. Have a roll of paper towels on hand and a garbage bag ready to put them into after use.
4. Clean up afterward with a blade and soapy water – no acetone.
5. Employ the “ain’t broke don’t fix it policy.” If you have a window that does not leak, leave it alone. Trust me. We did the entire set the first time and the window that started leaking next was the one window that was okay to begin with.
6. Bed the windows and then screw them lightly at first (sounds pornographic doesn’t it) After the caulk cures wrench down on them.

With any luck, your windows won’t put you in the running for the ugliest boat award next year.

dw

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Rochester
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2005 : 10:58:35

When I started repairing my boat, the windows were covered with green algae. It was a major job taking out the ports. When I got one out, I found the plywood core was in bad shape.

I dug out the core around the window as deep as possible. There is a foam insulation product available from home centers sold by the foot which is cylindrical is shape. You can get it in different diameters. I inserted this foam “rod” between the outside skin and the interior liner. The purpose of this “foam rod” was to prevent the epoxy going down into the core. I then mixed a thickened two part epoxy to fill both overhead and the bottom of the window opening.

I seemed there may have been a kind of osmotic movement of the moisture into the window frame from the outside. To prevent possible moisture migration around the seal, I drilled 1/8” holes into the frame on the bottom from the outside. These holes are drilled into the space that holds the glass and seal.

Then, I cleaned or replaced the rubber seal around the glass. I re-installed the exterior frame with bead of marine sealant. When replacing the interior frame, I replaced most of the screws with a larger diameter screws.

What was done was to effectively replace the core around the window with the thickened epoxy. That allowed sufficient compression when fastening the interior frame, and giving a very good seal to the window. Also, the small holes in the exterior frame allowed any moisture that migrated past the seal to drain or at least prevent any vapor pressure from building in the seal.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2005 : 19:20:03

As I am prone to say, "it never ceases to amaze me how different our sailing experiences are because of our locations". Here in Kansas our winters are so cold and our summers so hot that I don't think a Kansas boat could have that kind of growth. My boat had been sitting for years and did have about 5 gallons of mud dauber nest dirt spread through out every nook and cranny.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.