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Frank Butler's email

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/30/2005 : 16:35:24

Does anyone out there have Frank Butler's email? Something small and stupid happened today, I want to write him and let him know the dumb things his staff is doing.

Thanks

Kevin Mackenzie
Former Association Secretary and Commodore
"Dogs Allowed"
'06 C250WK #881
and
"Jasmine"
'01 Maine Cat 30 #34

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 19:16:02

I would call him at Catalina, I'm sure he would talk to you...

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 19:40:33

Sharon will be the President shortly.
Sharon@catalinayachts.com

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Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 23:08:01

Is Mr. Butler retiring?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2005 : 23:56:47

I have no special knowledge but the general buzz is it won't be too much longer and that Sharon rather than his son will get the top spot at this time. I could easily be full of crap.

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 00:30:51

Sharon is so completely overloaded that she can't really be helpful. I am hoping to contact Mr. Butler. A phone call might work, don't they screen people out from those? I guess I could FAX a letter to him...

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Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 02:40:16

I've talked to him in the past on issues regarding my boat. If he was busy he would call back. Easier to ignore a FAX than a phone call...

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Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 09:41:06

If she's sharon@catalinayachts.com, isn't it likely that he would be frank@catalinayachts.com ?

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 15:31:21

FWIW, Frank is not a techy, I've heard that the younger employees had to make their case for email and the website - hence his reputation for taking (or returning) phone calls.

Guess it's a generation thing!

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 15:46:10

What happenend; we'd all like to know I sure?

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2005 : 22:55:06

It is really trivial, but it torqued me, as small things sometimes do when you are spending a lot of money. Let's see if I can write it quickly, so as not to waste your time.

When I ordered my boat, I looked on the web to see how much cockpit cushions cost. I thought I found them for about $350, and they were waterproof. So I thought them a better deal than $382 from Catalina.

Later, I could not find the source of inexpensive cushions. All I could find were $500 to $700. So I asked the dealer if I could change my mind. They recommended, rather than changing the order, that I just order the cushions as parts, and they would be shipped with the boat. She said some people liked it better than way anyway, because then the snaps do not get installed in cockpit, and sometimes they "poke you in the butt". So I decided to wait a couple of days (which the dealer said was no problem) and see I could relocate the cheaper source. I couldn't.

So I emailed the dealer and asked them to order the cushions. They said that it was after hours, and they were leaving town for a week, would I mind ordering them myself, just tell 'em to ship with the boat.

So I call the factory. The parts guy says cushions are $550. Why so much? Because I am not buying them with a boat. But you are still building my damn boat (I hope, they are a month late now). Doesn't matter you have to order with the boat, and you have to order through the dealer.

OK, fine, I email the dealer, the "backup staff" at the dealer says the can't find a price in their book (or computer, or whatever) for separate cushions, but they will order them, and absorb any cost difference, but there should not be any.

About 2 weeks passes, and apparently there is a lot of back and forth between the dealer and the factory, because now I get an email that says "after much todo, we finally got your cushions ordered, but we had to do a production change to get it on the original order and Catalina is charging us $75 to make the change. So the cushions end up costing the dealer $75 more, but would be the same cost to me.

Now, maybe I should just have left it alone. Probably. But something about all this irritated me. I want to have a good relationship with my dealer. What is fair about them paying $75 more when all that is required is for some parts guy to throw the cushions in the boat? And now I am going to get the snaps, which means Catalina has labor they did not have before, so they probably will only profit on a small part of the $75.

I told the dealer that I had no desire to rob him of $75, and no desire to reward Catalina for this behavior. I canceled the cushions entirely. Now Catalina makes less profit on the boat, as does the dealer, and I don't get cushions.

Who won in that deal?

I told you it was trivial. Part of why I just want to write it, rather than do a phone call.

In the end, I am probably just being an irrational customer. But when you spend nearly 300 boat units to buy a new boat, wouldn't you think Catalina could find a way to move the cushions from the parts bin to the boat without charging me between $75 and $180 extra?

Sorry, it was long after all.

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2005 : 07:08:43

Sounds like ordering dry wholewheat toast: Give me a BLT on Wheat toast, hold the bacon, lettuce, mayo, & tomato. In the end even if we get what we want we all lose.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2005 : 07:48:28

Kevin, sorry to hear about the confusion... it seems to be typical stuff however now days... though that is no consolation.

Unless the cushions have changed since earlier days, they are open cell foam. I forgot and left mine in cockpit one night and got an unexpected rain and they saturated and were useless the rest of a cruise. The worst of it, after removing the covers to get the dried out, they were in the way. Closed cell it seems to me is worth the exra 50% or whatever it cost.

Regarding Frank and email... it has been about five years now... but I heard Frank speak and he expressed a hated of E-mail and relegated it something akin to the devils work. He said however, that he loves the fax machine... so maybe that is the key to reaching him.

It seems more reasonable that you should contact Kent Nelson or whoever is currently handling customer service issues... in the past, they have taken care of me by sometimes passing off the issue to Gerry Graham or Frank Butler.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2005 : 08:17:29

Thanks Arlyn, I appreciate the advice.

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2005 : 11:55:37

Kevin I have talked to Frank, Gerry Douglas and Kent @ Catalina and I have found them all easily accessible by phone. Never was able to hail any of the three by e-mail.

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2005 : 14:52:54

Arlyn, or anyone, can you recommend a source for closed foam cockpit cushions for a C250?

Thanks.

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JJM
Navigator

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USA
170 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2005 : 13:55:32

Kevin,

I haven't used this vendor, but their cockpit cushions appear to be very reasonably priced:

http://www.bottomsiders.com/

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takokichi
Captain

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USA
321 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2005 : 23:07:16

Write Frank a letter. Provide your phone number. He'll call back. He's incredibly responsive. I had an issue at the Miami boat show two years ago and wrote him a note when I got back. He was on the phone with me within 48 hours making things right. Just one of the many reasons Catalina's still around.

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2005 : 08:36:34

Thanks everyone. The good news (mostly) but bad news (for this tiny point) is that my boat is scheduled to ship today (but they have not asked for money yet, so I figure it is not really happening). Anyway, it is too late to sent the cushions with the boat, and several folks have convinced me that I should look for cushions made locally, so that is the direction I will go. I really could not bring myself to shoot a bullet with Frank on this small thing. I may yet write him a letter when I have time, but just as a "you might want to look at this" kind of thing...

Anyone out there who ordered a new boat, is the another date offset that I should expect? The factory originally said the boat was scheduled for completion on Nov 3rd (not Dec, Nov), but my dealer said that translated into the first week of December from his experience. A few days ago, the dealer said the boat was scheduled to be picked up by the shipper today, but I not heard anything yet, and I thought that the factory needed to be paid before they shipped. If you have an experience with all this that you can recount, I would be interested in hearing it. I am not stressed about it, heck, I am not losing any really good sailing time (Brrr...)...

Thanks.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2005 : 10:39:24

Lots of Catalina components get shipped via piggy-back on new boats that are shipped to dealers after yours . . .

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2005 : 12:01:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I thought that the factory needed to be paid before they shipped. If you have an experience with all this that you can recount, I would be interested in hearing it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My experience was 25 years ago, but my recollection is that, at that time, the factory required full payment before they shipped. When I bought mine, the dealer paid the factory, and I paid the dealer in full upon delivery with an out-of-state, uncertified personal check. That amazed me, even in those more trusting times.

When I ordered my boat, it was scheduled for completion in about April or May, but I didn't get it until sometime in August. The factory builds so many boats that they have a pretty good idea of how long it takes to build each boat. A dealer told me that when the factory gets an extraordinary number of orders, their backlog builds up, and there was a limit to how fast they could build boats. Boat building requires enough skilled labor that they can't hire additional unskilled people to do all the jobs needed to build a boat. Also, the number of hull molds that they had limited the number of boats they could build, and the factory space was also a limitation. Back then the C25 was nearing the height of its popularity, and the factory was building them as fast as possible. The factory completion date is just an estimate, subject to change, and when I ordered mine, my dealer made it clear that the factory's estimated completion date was just that. When I saw the summer sailing season passing me by, I didn't like it either, but I figured there wasn't anything that either I or the factory could do about it.

Things looked much brighter when I finally got my new boat home, with new sails and a clean bottom and rudder, and she flew up and down the lake!

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cclark
Navigator

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USA
104 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2005 : 20:32:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JJM
 Kevin,

I haven't used this vendor, but their cockpit cushions appear to be very reasonably priced:

http://www.bottomsiders.com/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bottom Siders is a Northwest Company. I have some factory seconds on my boat and LOVE them. Quality is top notch and I wouldn't hesitate to order from them. (I have no financial interest in the company)
cheers,
Chris

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dburton
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2005 : 22:49:37

I hate to dissappoint you, but here is my experience with Catalina, my dealer, and Mr. Butler. I ordered my new C250 WK at the boat show in Alemeda in early April. I was told at that time that "Sharon" was at the show and said my boat would be ready for delivery in 3-4 weeks. End of May arrives no boat. Dealer says he can't get anybody at Catalina to return his calls or tell him what is happening with my boat. I decide to call Mr. Butler. He calls me back and tells me my boat will be delivered by end of June. He will see to it personally and call me on or about the 20th to let me know shipping date. End of June arrives no calls, no boat. I call again. Another production delay, boat will be finished July 7. Another production delay, July 17. Another production delay, no calls from Mr. Butler or my dealer. The only time I ever found out anything was when I called them. Finally I reached my threshold for frustration and disrespect and cancelled the boat at the beginning of Aug. I have to say that I have never been treated so poorly by any company or business.

mid Aug. I bought a '79 C25 SK and have been sailing everyweekend since.

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